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Thread on "Language Banditry" | ||
Tags: Language Banditry | Immersion | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| SlickAs Tetraglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5875 days ago 185 posts - 287 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, French, Swedish Studies: Thai, Vietnamese | Message 81 of 140 26 January 2009 at 7:38am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Mate, the problem of bilingualism has been discussed in much more nuanced ways, and is a real problem. This thread takes as given a conspiracy that does not exist. So if we want to discuss bi-lingualism and how it impedes language learning, then lets discuss it in a different thread. Japan, China, etc are hardly difficult places for bilingualism compared with Sweden, Holland, etc. If we want to talk about supposed conspiracies of locals who approach you and only speak to you in order to learn your language, this is the conspiracy topic. It is true that a female will approach a male in Thailand, she will be looking for more than friendship. Females, as well as men who are able to find partners are not complaining. There is no reason to complain ... Should female Japanese (Chinese, Korean) girls be approaching our "language bandit" beleiving men, and going home with them, they will hardly be complaining. I therefore see no women, nor men in relationships with Japanese (chinese, Korean) girls complianing. In fact I do not see any people who are not involuntary celibates selling it as a problem ... Edited by SlickAs on 26 January 2009 at 7:56am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Hollow Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United States luelinks.netRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6537 days ago 179 posts - 186 votes Speaks: French*, English*, SpanishB2 Studies: Korean | Message 82 of 140 26 January 2009 at 8:28am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Arg, then start talking about how bilingualism impedes language learning with better examples than those that were given, or contribute something to the discussion, perhaps other than a nice snide comment about how people on one side of a debate don't have a significant other, yah?
EDIT: I'll add that I am in Korea as an exchange student, have been for the past 6 months, will be for the next 5 months, do have a Korean girlfriend and do think that (while I really don't like this thread's tone a lot of the time and hate the term 'bandit' that people are now using in their posts as though nothing were) there is quite a lot of frustration to be had with Koreans who have all learned at least some English approaching you with English from the get-go or treating you differently, making you uncomfortable or flustered. Edited by Hollow on 26 January 2009 at 8:34am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Maximus Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6747 days ago 417 posts - 427 votes Studies: Spanish, Japanese, Thai | Message 83 of 140 31 January 2009 at 9:15pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
What on earth are you talking about? You asked me before if I posted while under the influence. I hope to hell that you were under the influence of some kind of substance when you wrote this. Otherwise one could only think that you are either A) A very immature school kid who has just reached puberty age and now is just obsessed with this this newly discovered phenemona called sex. And now this immature you sees sex as the only driving force in life and feels the need to troll respectable forums with inconsequential posts on getting laid. Or B) Some kind of mentally deficient phychiatric patient with a sex offense conviction who has been let loose for his internet time. By the way your poor attempts at trying to be all funny and witty are un-original and childish at most. Conspiracy theory!? Are you really dumb enough to believe that we are making this out to be a conspiracy theory? As we know there was a time in which the British were expanding the British empire, in which the trailblazers were in search of gold in America, and a time in which the British were filling Australia with all of our criminals, socially unfit no-hopers and crap at the bottom of our society. In those times of expansion, we DO NOT believe that a group of conspiring Anglophone explorers/ expansionists got together and said "we will spread our language so far and wide for the exclusive purpose of reducing the immersion time of Parasitius, Maximus, et cetera several centuries from now! Only someone as unwitty, un-original and mentally unstable as you could fabricate such idea of a conspiracy theory into this thread! You had no reason to trollingly jack this thread and whine on in your inconsequential comments about how you think that we are suggesting that this phenomena is a form of conspiracy or another. The purpose of this thread was to allow users to express their experiences relating to this matter. Of course we would have wished to do so in an adult manner without attemped sabotages from seemingly alcoholic and sexually predatorial dangers like you! If you want to write extensive comments on sexual frustration or anything related to sex, may the one who find another forum be you! Though I admittedly believe that the phenomena of which this thread is about could have been given a more approriate name (like I said before, I used it just for the sake of understanding and for lack of any other known terms), I believe that the topics on the choice of what determines the language that individuals (of different mothertongues) use and topics on how to immerse oneself more and "counter" any unwanted encounters in which people disrupt our immersion with our own native language, are IMPORTANT TOPICS for just about ANY LANGUAGE ENTHUSIAST. Dispite this, we still had immature trolls posting inconsequential and childish comments and calling our thread "hatred and bile". Now having explained that discusions carried out in an adult manner on the aforementioned topics should be important to discuss for most learners, it seems that because you are making accusations like this there is no limit to your dilusion. "Well guess what? We don’t believe in your conspiracies. We speak many languages, and are not trying to find our way in a single foreign culture." We! Who the hell are we! Now your level of sanity may appear to be so terrible to the extent that you now have imaginary friends who all think like you, or worse, you think that you are yourself several people. Not only do you invent non-existing content, you now invent people! "We speak many languages". Wow!!!, three western European language closely related to your native language! Of those two share 80% lexical similarity (French with Spanish)! Wow! That is really a polyglot collection of "many languages"! Unless of course you multiply those languages by the number of imaginary people who make up this "we" or make up yourself. Then you may end up with "many languages"! (Now there is nothing wrong with learning language like this combination, if you are into these languages, but to claim to speak "many languages" from this combination is just absurd!) Please put an end to your dilusion by seeking help! You may also say that the phenomena of "language banditry" will not hinder you(s). For the precise reason of not letting X lingua franca speaking foreigners become an obstacle for our immersive learning, we are discussing what to do in those situation in this thread. Preferably in a mature and constructive manner. So don't jack it with your unnecessary and stupid unrelated comments! " Because I find it hard to believe that you would be sleeping with a Japanese (Chinese, Korean) woman, and while she is sleeping in your bed, be posting paragraphs upon paragraphs of conspiracies and hate and bile." I don't know why nowdays there is so much importance placed on the need to have sex and why one has to be deemed unsuccessul if they are not always having sex. You just write like the pervert you appear to be. Why do people always assume that everyone has so much interest in sex like they do and feel that... Or I give up! I am not going to talk in detail about your ridiculous comments! It is not worth taking someone like you seriously in a forum which is supposed to be of an serious nature. However, according to your own logic, I would be more sexually active, therefore by your immature logic "successful" than you (not that I want to be anyway). The reason being, nowdays I only use this forum when I see an eyecatching thread. Lately I use it maybe one per week. You seem to use it way more. Speaking of which, the time spent in forums like this that is, as the owner of the site All Japanese All The Time puts it, "A lot of people studying Japanese spend a lot of time in these fora, day in day out, petty feud to petty feud, pet theory against pet theory.". Basically these fora can waste our study time. I am going to listen to the advice of wise Khatsumoto and use these fora much less. I have used energy on this issue and don't intend to use anymore. Now away from this forum and to real study for me! To the ladies and gentlemen who contributed to this thread in a mature and constructive manner, thank you very much. The truth is my objective of this thread was kind of an experiment if you will. Firstly I wanted to see how many people could relate to the phenomena of which this thread is centered around. Secondly I wanted to see what solutions people would think to be acceptable and appropriate in dealing with such "anti-immersion lingua franca bombardments" against us as foreigners. Some people think that "total-immersionists" who only speak the target language and don't give in to, or humor those who bombard us with English act like a-holes. Those same people make out that we ought to speak to them in English. As an experiment I wanted to see if people saw our refusal to give in when hassled as an acceptable form of behavior. Well I don't see our persistence as wrong! I also wanted to introduce people to the site on language banditry, which I think was well made in my humble opinion. OK, now I have got my use out of this thread in looking into what views others hold on this issue. I am now done with this thread. That said, I don't intend to acknowledge or reply any more to any idiotic comments which the immature and pathetic thread troll SlickAss may continue to post. Like I said, I am done here now. Once again thank you. Now I am off to study all the time just like the wise Khatzumoto recommends! 左様なら 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| parasitius Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5996 days ago 220 posts - 323 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin Studies: Cantonese, Polish, Spanish, French | Message 84 of 140 01 February 2009 at 12:18am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Thanks for your comments.
I think it wouldn't be short of impossible to change people's perception built up of me over the course of two years by suddenly doing it, so I think it is unfeasible without moving to an entirely new environment (job). But I do intend to try this. As for communications - that's a big part of exactly why I'm so offended by it. English makes communication impossible. I *know* without a doubt they won't understand what I say to them in English before I even say it, so I have stopped wasting my breath. With an entry level position, when they tell me incorrect information, due to their bungled grammar, I am the one being asked to do something, so it looks like I'm the one who did it wrong. Understand my frustration? The thing is the job is so weird in some senses that even if I do something completely wrong due to the misinformation due te the crap English, nobody will ever know and certainly nobody will ever scold me for it. So basically communication in the office is of no importance, so they are free to miscommunicate everything with no repercussions for anyone. Most of my friends are now in managerial positions or at least with people under them, so their situation is linguistically a hundred fold better. If the people beneath them dared TRY to bandit them, they only need wait until the person makes one huge blunder due to miscomprehended and chew them a new one "How dare you ask me to explain it to you in a language you cannot properly comprehend! Do you think this job is a joke? Do you think the company is paying you to be here and learn English from me for free as opposed to doing what needs to be done?" I have no such option. When I protest or repeat something they said that made no sense, not only would they not consider switching languages in a hundred years, but they give an irritated look as if I'm demanding "perfectionism" of their (by their standards) more than satisfactory ability to spit out strings of English syllables. That was a big paragraph -- so to sum it up: I just highly recommend anyone coming to China only accept a job where they have people under them. If you can't find one, work your way up the ladder to a higher position in another country first, then come back.
I read your post on him and it was awesome. Definitely one I'll be reading again and again for inspiration in the coming years. When I'm banditted I generally make my English as pure and precise as possible so that I'm sure they will enjoy themselves understanding no more than 30% of what I'm saying. I thought this would cause them to give in when I first started working here, and I'm sure it would in less "arrogant" countries (as it does with the rare more humble Chinese person), but what it reveals to me is that they just don't care if I understand them or if they understand me. The point is either (1) to practice (2) to show off. I'm quite convinced that if it wasn't so there is no possible way they would continue without either switching languages, or at the very least asking me to repeat myself a whole lot more (again I have some actual friends who aren't arrogant and they give me perfect evidence of how a normal non-arrogant person would respond to my "pure" English -- they have to ask me to repeat myself a lot or translate).
Sounds good! Be sure to report back on your findings, soldier! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| parasitius Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5996 days ago 220 posts - 323 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin Studies: Cantonese, Polish, Spanish, French | Message 85 of 140 01 February 2009 at 12:31am | IP Logged | ||||||||
On one hand your post is completely f*ing inappropriate and offensive... On the other hand, I do totally agree with the theory that a considerable and scary portion of the male population is driven to various obsessions as a manifestation of their subconscious frustrations with inability to relieve themselves in a way the forces of instinct drives them to. I'm not going to go into details about girls I'm dating, because it's none of your damn business, but also because: more than suffice it to say prostitutes can be had in any city in this country for a sum of not more than $5-10. I don't think the most socially retarded of people stationed there has problems releasing their tension. I submit to you this reason that there MIGHT BE few females complaining of banditry: You would have no problem in any country locating a huge % of a male population which has never approached and chatted up an anonymous female on the street or in a bar. As a male, it is not intrinsically necessary, so those with a certain amount of social fear or lack of confidence general seek mates through alternate routes. (e.g. social circle game, blind dates setup by friends, websites) As a female with an appearance between slightly-ugly-but-not-hideous to beautiful, by the age of 25 some absurd thousands of approaches have been made. Thus the female is, by default and regardless of her passive character, much more socially adept in dealing with new persons. Thus, to some degree, probably more socially adept in avoiding or fending off bandits. Now if you would PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASSHOLE, and looked at my Banditry research pages linked early in this thread, you'll see one of the blog links at the top of my survey page is a catholic nun in Taiwan. A WOMAN. GET IT? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| SlickAs Tetraglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5875 days ago 185 posts - 287 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French, Swedish Studies: Thai, Vietnamese | Message 87 of 140 01 February 2009 at 8:36am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I hate to revive this thread and kick it to the top.
I meant no offense to any formites. Instead I meant to say that I have worked closely with involuntary celibates (and it is not a name I made up, it is a clinical term). And I recognise the wounded sense of entitlement. In the case of involuntary celibates there is a wounded sense of entitlement around women. They feel they are good men, they speak to women, they don’t feel they get their just-desserts. You guys have the same sense of wounded entitlement. You speak to them, you don’t get what you feel should be coming to you. Read this metaphor. The problem with involuntary celibates is that women can 'smell the desperation / misogyny". The involuntary celibate, with his wounded sense of entitlement speaks to the girl and he is stiff in the neck and shoulders. He kind of hates her. She senses this and is repelled ... nothing to do with his looks or dress or job or anything else but the way he approaches a social situation. She says she does not want to go further than a drink and the wounded involuntary celibate takes it the wrong way and blows up about how she is ripping him off. Should he have been a confident man he would have held himself differently, and even with the same result would have realised that she needs to drive tonight, and offers to go elsewhere for a coffee. See the difference. You guys act like involuntary celibates with your language. Here it is about your language. A wounded sense of entitlement. I read your posts and recognise you. I can see straight into your soul. So see it as a metaphor and you might understand that your behavior causes the reactions, which re-enforces your opinions, which reinforces the behavior, etc. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| TheNightBefore Newbie United States Joined 5817 days ago 29 posts - 31 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Mandarin | Message 88 of 140 01 February 2009 at 10:25am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Dating advice and language advice at the same time. Watch-out yahoo. Your explanation is interesting. Have you considered that it may also apply to your own readiness to identify these individuals. Your proximity to them explains your readiness to spot them everywhere which is reinforced by pandering to your sense of superiority for "seeing into their souls" so easily. A wildly improbable idea, I know. But, a little bedside manner, excuse the pun, would make the application less apparent.
1 person has voted this message useful |
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