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Voting and results of the TAC 2012

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Kerrie
Senior Member
United States
justpaste.it/Kerrie2
Joined 5338 days ago

1232 posts - 1740 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

 
 Message 81 of 89
18 January 2013 at 1:54pm | IP Logged 
Chung wrote:
The recent back-and-forth involving Serpent, Kerrie and Solfrid Cristin among a few others didn't reflect well to me considering that we pride ourselves on building camaraderie (as much as it can be acheived) and knowing when to be serious, and when not to be.

That's rather ironic, since Cristina and Serpent are two (of I think three) people I have contact with outside of HTLAL. :)

I know both of them well enough to see there was something brewing and thought I'd step in and stop it. I never thought I'd come across that way. :(

Chung wrote:
The only thing to take seriously is the commitment to study a foreign language. Whether some people marry themselves to a particular brand or method to do it, or others study once in a blue moon, or still others act as lone wolves or in a wolf pack (to stay with the analogy), that's for every person to figure out. I like my teams for the support that they bring (inasmuch as it's possible with a bunch of strangers on the internet) but in the end it's still up to me to get off my ass and study. I'm not here to hold someone's hand to learn a language, but that doesn't mean I won't help when useful with links or attempts at reexplanations about something troublesome in a common target language.


I totally agree, but I think the TAC should also take into consideration - to a point - the team factor: showing your teammates what you are doing, and supporting them throughout the year. Everyone is different, but I think it's important to update your log fairly regularly - be it once a week or every two months - and to read your teammates logs (and add your two cents once in awhile).
1 person has voted this message useful



Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6540 days ago

9753 posts - 15779 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 82 of 89
18 January 2013 at 2:46pm | IP Logged 
Ironic indeed :)
Actually, when I saw some people having TAC2010 Winner badges when I came back to the forum after an absence, I took that to mean it was something akin to NANO, which is what TAC resembles anyway. Everyone who's completed the challenge is the winner.
It was quite disappointing to realize there was actually a VOTING, and it's all about teams and you can win without being impressive.

If even we three start bickering about that, something is wrong with the system. And let's not forget that when the votes are decided, it'll have to be the administrator who adds the TAC 2012 Winner line.

I wish the whole voting thing just didn't exist or was something completely different. Simply an opportunity to say which logs you enjoyed most, whose progress impressed you etc. Similar to those thank-you posts but more specific.

Edited by Serpent on 18 January 2013 at 2:58pm

1 person has voted this message useful



ellasevia
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2011
Senior Member
Germany
Joined 6085 days ago

2150 posts - 3229 votes 
Speaks: English*, German, Croatian, Greek, French, Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian
Studies: Catalan, Persian, Mandarin, Japanese, Romanian, Ukrainian

 
 Message 83 of 89
18 January 2013 at 2:55pm | IP Logged 
Chung wrote:
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
mick33 wrote:
My vote for a TAC team was harder to decide, but I vote for Team *jäŋe / *ledús just because I've seen nothing that forbids me from voting for my own team.

Have you seen anything which allows you to vote for your own team? What is going on here? Trying to vote for your own teams, offering to sell your votes? Could I ask people to please take this seriously? A lot of people put a lot of effort into this, and some of you are now making a travesty out of all their hard work.

Wow, this is the closest that I've come to disagreeing with Solfrid Cristin.

I think that the problem is that by taking it seriously it takes the fun out of it and more seriously in my view subordinates language learning to doing it as part of some team formed over the ether. The recent back-and-forth involving Serpent, Kerrie and Solfrid Cristin among a few others didn't reflect well to me considering that we pride ourselves on building camaraderie (as much as it can be acheived) and knowing when to be serious, and when not to be. I've also found it a little weird to vote/argue over who's the winner of TAC because in the end it doesn't really matter. This doesn't even mention that the selection process is opaque/subjective and voters freely admit that they haven't (or won't deign to) read all of the logs thus erasing any semblance of balance or fairness - hence my comment on this being a popularity contest rather than serious reflection of someone who's actually made progress in learning a language. There's nothing wrong with a popularity contest, but it's more honest to act that that's what we're dealing with rather than making noise about trying to be objective or imposing criteria on the fly when we haven't given an iota of thought about it until now.

The thing is, and I think this is what Solfrid Cristin was saying too, that by chiming in with unhelpful comments, no matter how entertaining they may be, about voting for yourself or selling your votes, it's very disrespectful to those people who have actually been making a serious effort to try to define what constitutes a winning TAC team or log, not to mention to those people whose TAC logs we are talking about. True, there's always a lot of error and subjectivity in the voting process, which arguably should not even be a part of the TAC. And true, this past year's TAC was not particularly well organized (was there even a single member in charge of organizing and keeping track of everything in 2012, including the rules, like Buttons in 2010, myself in 2011, or Brun Ugle in 2013?) in that we didn't have a list of criteria from the outset to determine a "win." But please don't make even more of a mess for those people who are taking it seriously and trying to fix this problem by derailing the thread with such pointless comments.

Edited by ellasevia on 18 January 2013 at 2:59pm

1 person has voted this message useful



Spanky
Senior Member
Canada
Joined 5899 days ago

1021 posts - 1714 votes 
Studies: French

 
 Message 84 of 89
18 January 2013 at 4:11pm | IP Logged 
I have deleted a portion of my original comment.
1 person has voted this message useful



Solfrid Cristin
Heptaglot
Winner TAC 2011 & 2012
Senior Member
Norway
Joined 5277 days ago

4143 posts - 8864 votes 
Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian
Studies: Russian

 
 Message 85 of 89
18 January 2013 at 6:56pm | IP Logged 
Kerrie wrote:
Chung wrote:
The recent back-and-forth involving Serpent, Kerrie and Solfrid Cristin
among a few others didn't reflect well to me considering that we pride ourselves on building camaraderie (as
much as it can be acheived) and knowing when to be serious, and when not to be.

That's rather ironic, since Cristina and Serpent are two (of I think three) people I have contact with outside of
HTLAL. :)).


Actually that makes perfect sense, because you have a higher threshold for what you consider a fight with
someone you are closer to than others. :-) And I am truly sorry if anything I have said is considered
bickering.

If Chung has understood that Kerrie and Serpent are the ones whose input I have found frustrating in this
discussion, then I must have been unclear in my statements.

Serpent has a perfectly valid point in that it is difficult to know who are inn and who are out in a team, and that
it will feel unfair to be left out if you have contributed with a lot of work. I do not have the perfect solution for
that, perhaps we should simply leave it to the individual members of the team that are chosen as winners.
Those who feel that they have contributed enough to consider themselves winners are in, and those who feel
that their own input has been lacking are out. And then we fix some rules for next year.

Otherwise I would like to thank those who have voted for team Sputnik so far. We have certainly tried to
inspire both each other and other teams, and so have several other teams. There have been lots of great
contributions this year, so it should not be difficult to find a team to vote for, but please let us stop this and
just vote. Last year people said a lot of nice things when they voted, which is why I tried to do the same this
year. Nice positive things pointing out what they liked about the individual logs and the teams they voted for.
If we can do nothing else, then let us at least keep up that tradition so that we do not all feel like we have lost
at the end of the process.
1 person has voted this message useful



Spanky
Senior Member
Canada
Joined 5899 days ago

1021 posts - 1714 votes 
Studies: French

 
 Message 86 of 89
19 January 2013 at 6:55pm | IP Logged 
Huge amount of hard work, good progress and many excellent logs this past year from so
many. Above others I would particularly like to congratulate the following:

Team 龍 (East Asian) - great annihilating and heavy lifting in a difficult area, well
done!

Team Sputnik - great team spirit, some excellent and very entertaining logs from many
members, in particular tarvos and especially Cristina and very nice progress.

My vote however goes to Team Romantics - several very excellent individual logs from
team members, awesome team spirit and support and excellent award-worthy collective
progress.

4 persons have voted this message useful





Fasulye
Heptaglot
Winner TAC 2012
Moderator
Germany
fasulyespolyglotblog
Joined 5790 days ago

5460 posts - 6006 votes 
1 sounds
Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto
Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 87 of 89
21 January 2013 at 5:42pm | IP Logged 
RESULTS OF THE VOTING FOR THE TAC 2012

Today on Monday, 21 January 2013, the voting period is now closed!

Songlines has asked me friendly to count the votes and it's my pleasure to do this as a long-lasting TAC - participant (since 2009).

I haven't counted any votes of people for their own teams. And we have two clear results.

A. Votes for TAC Teams 2012:

1. Winner: Team Sputnik - 6 votes
2. Team Romantics - 4 votes
3. Teams Jäne/Ledús, Team Freutsch, Team Zá, Team Asia - 1 vote

B. Votes for the Individual TAC 2012:

1. Winner: Fasulye - 5 votes

C. Individual TAC 2012 Team members mentioned:

G-bod, Chung, Expugnator, Zecchino1991, TixhiiDon, Brun Ugle.

My congratulatiuon to the winners of the TAC 2012!

And I would kindly ask songlines to make a list of the participants of the winning Team Sputnik who updated their TAC - logs until the end of the TAC year 2012.

As a winner myself I am very happy that my idea of writing my log in the target language (= Danish) is appreciated by the other TAC - members. Tusind tak for det! :)

Fasulye



Edited by Fasulye on 21 January 2013 at 8:40pm

3 persons have voted this message useful





songlines
Pro Member
Canada
flickr.com/photos/cp
Joined 5152 days ago

729 posts - 1056 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: French
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 88 of 89
21 January 2013 at 6:32pm | IP Logged 
Thanks, Fasulye, and congratulations on your own win!

And congratulations to Team Sputnik! - I look forward to another year of your high-flying adventures in language
-learning with Team Mir.

Quote:

And I would kindly ask songlines to make a list of the participants of the winning Team Sputnik who updated
their TAC - logs until the end of the TAC year 2012.



I believe that Solfrid Cristin already has the team links in
post 4 of this thread.

And a final thank you to folks who voted for Team Romantics, and to my fellow "Romantics" members.



Edited by songlines on 21 January 2013 at 6:37pm



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