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TAC 2013, Celtic Team: "Clan Lugus" | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6695 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 185 of 195 10 December 2013 at 7:21pm | IP Logged | ||
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I just noticed that liammcg refers to the old blue Teach Yourself Irish by Dillon and O'Cróinín. I actually own that book in a reprint from 1980 - though by now I have forgotten when and why I bought it. There's a lot good things to say about it. For instance it has a fair amount of grammar and less silly games and moronic drills than later TY generations. But it bothers me that it uses "do" with all verbs in the past tense, not just those that start with a vowel, and it also uses far more synthetic verbal forms than my paper grammars or those I have seen on the internet. The West Munster dialect may simply more conservative than other dialects or 'standard' Irish, and that's in my opinion a problem. Edited by Iversen on 10 December 2013 at 7:26pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6901 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 186 of 195 11 December 2013 at 12:20am | IP Logged | ||
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I had to take a look at the chapter you're referring to, and I've never seen it in either the newer TY Irish (90s) or my Linguaphone Cúrsa Gaeilge. They both use the simple lenited form without a d' prefix (unless it's a vowel verb, of course, e.g. d'éirigh, d'ól).
I wonder if this feature is still in use (maybe in West Munster?). I can ask my teacher tomorrow, and check the Caighdeán Oifigiúil. Can any natives confirm? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| liammcg Senior Member Ireland Joined 4596 days ago 269 posts - 397 votes Speaks: English* | Message 187 of 195 11 December 2013 at 1:47am | IP Logged | ||
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Yes they're still used in Munster, though natives usually use the 'standard' forms when
speaking with someone from outside they're area. They are certainly not the standard forms as taught in schools but I'm sure they are recognised by the caighdeán. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6901 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 188 of 195 12 December 2013 at 4:27pm | IP Logged | ||
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This is what my teacher says:
"Historically, all past tense verbs were formed with 'do'. Over the past centuries, however, this 'do' fell out of use in most dialects, except before verbs beginning with a vowel or lenited f followed by a vowel (which we find in the Caighdeán Oifigiúil today). The Munster dialect is the most grammatically conservative of the dialects and has therefore retained certain historical grammatical features no longer found in other dialects. Hence the retention of 'do-' until well into the twentieth century. This 'do-' particle was taught to students until the mid-twentieth century when the 'Caighdeán Oifigiúil' was published (1958). It's use is now largely confined to older generations, or to those who intentionally use this more older form. The 1961 edition to which you refer was therefore published at the cusp of this change and so clearly reflects the previous practice. Subsequent books, unless focused on dialect studies, will probably omit mention of the particle." 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Teango Triglot Winner TAC 2010 & 2012 Senior Member United States teango.wordpress.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5548 days ago 2210 posts - 3734 votes Speaks: English*, German, Russian Studies: Hawaiian, French, Toki Pona | Message 189 of 195 14 December 2013 at 4:06am | IP Logged | ||
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Just 18 days left, with Christmas round the corner and the tree still not up...it's that time of year again to look back over your shoulder to the footprints in the snow or sand and sum up briefly what happened, and then draw a line under this, and look forward to new goals and adventures on the horizon in 2014.
I've gone over all our team posts again, as well as everyone's language logs (all whilst listening to some traditional Irish ditties by Eddie and Finbar Furey in the background), and I've got to say I'm really proud of what we've achieved this year. In the run-up to the 2013 TAC, we were just a handful in number this time last year, and Celtic languages were only softly whispered about as endangered or quaint curiosities in the corridor. At one point, it didn't even look like we'd muster up enough members to register as a team; but we did, and look how things turned out. :) There have been many highlights that come to mind during this period (but I can only mention a few of them here, so apologies all round to our hidden heroes): tarvos polishing off Assimil's "Le Breton sans peine" early in spring, Josquin completing both her Colloquial Irish and Scottish Gaelic course books in autumn, and liammcg passing a degree in Irish, no less! I've also just recently learned that our very own tarvos has been lined up for an interview with a Breton-speaking radio station this Saturday in Paris. So good luck from all of us, tarvos! I also really enjoyed jeff_lindqvist's summary of his week-long immersion course at Oideas Gael in Glencolmcille in July (definitely on my wishlist), Iversen's investigations into the esoteric intricacies of Irish grammar (something I no doubt will come back to later for reference), and following several members' experiences of taking on "Harry Potter agus an Órchloch" (my copy's still waiting my return to England, safely packed away in a dusty travel case in the attic like a genuine grimoire). Finally, a special big "go raibh maith agat" (Ir: "thank you") goes out to Khublei, our resident Irish teacher and godmother extraordinaire, who proved to be a guiding light throughout our Celtic voyage this year (I'm keeping my fingers firmly crossed she'll join us again for the 2014 TAC), and to all those who followed our team log or shared our company from a distance and offered useful comments, links, and tips throughout the year (you know who you are ;) ). For those of you interested in continuing this adventure with us next year, whether this means striving for new levels of proficiency and fluency, starting afresh in a Celtic language, or helping to steer us in the right direction as a native-speaker or interested third party, our team thread for the 2014 TAC Team Celts is now open and seeking a motley crew. I hope to see you there, and if not, I wish you all the very best in your plans for next year, agus bíodh spraoi agaibh! (Ir: "have fun!") :D Edited by Teango on 14 December 2013 at 4:12am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4699 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 190 of 195 14 December 2013 at 8:21am | IP Logged | ||
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The station is in Paris. The guy happens to be
in town close to me. Other than that, exciting!!! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4836 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 191 of 195 14 December 2013 at 1:12pm | IP Logged | ||
What's that supposed to mean? :-D 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Teango Triglot Winner TAC 2010 & 2012 Senior Member United States teango.wordpress.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5548 days ago 2210 posts - 3734 votes Speaks: English*, German, Russian Studies: Hawaiian, French, Toki Pona | Message 192 of 195 15 December 2013 at 9:51am | IP Logged | ||
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@tarvos, Josquin
Lol...sorry guys, I think I read too many logs all in one sitting. ;) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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