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Mick’s 2012 log Teams *jäŋe / *ledús & Žá | ||
Tags: Scriptorium | Afrikaans | Wanderlust | Thai | 6 Weeks Challenge (6WC) | Teach Yourself | Hindi | Intermediate | Finnish | Polish | Swedish | Verbs/Conjugation | Multilingual | Beginner | Total Annihilation Challenge (TAC) | Italian | Grammar | Spanish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6590 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 81 of 108 29 August 2012 at 1:48pm | IP Logged |
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I don't think it's possible to do this search without including the forms of the word oma, which is very common.
The first page of the search is either dictionaries or stuff like this: -Olen ollut siinä käsityksessä että verbi "omata" ei ole oikeaa suomea, vaan se on tekaistu vieraiden kielien myötävaikutuksella. ... -Omata-sana on selvästi tullut kieleemme esimerkiksi ruotsin kielen ha- ja englannin kielen have-verbeistä. ... To confuse you some more, there's also omistaa. I've never seen omata in a real text (at least not in the form omata... might have wondered what's happened to the word oma :D), but I've seen omistaa for sure. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5917 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish | Message 82 of 108 29 August 2012 at 8:20pm | IP Logged |
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Thanks Serpent. It is a relief to find out that you've never seen "omata" in a real text. I knew about "omistaa" already, but I haven't seen that one much either, so I won't worry about it anymore.
hei hei Mick 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5917 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish | Message 83 of 108 11 September 2012 at 10:09am | IP Logged |
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If I remember right, the 6WC has ended. Even if it hasn't, I stopped posting updates to the Twitter bot Saturday and I took a break from language learning on Sunday and forgot to even record the amount of time I spent on Finnish for Monday. As of saturday I spent 48.33 hours of time of time on Finnish and that makes this my best 6WC in 2012. I feel like I am on a roll with Finnish so I'm definitely going to continue with Finnish for the rest of the year.
I have not quite been able to do AJATT-style immersion yet, but reading Khatzumoto's blog did inspire me to be more consistent and spend at least an hour a day on Finnish. As for what I've actually been learning, I decided I need to review again what I had already learned about Finnish consonant gradation. I've written about this topic before, but it looks like I only scratched the surface 3 years ago and last week I wanted to dig a bit deeper into to it. The post I linked to above covers what I understand about the basic concept of consonant gradation but I missed a few details. One of the things I missed was what can happen with the letter k in Finnish words. I may eventually write a post about this but I don't know when I'll actually do so and I'd rather learn more Finnish words first. I also needed to catch up on working with my wordlists, mostly to add more Finnish words but also for my other languages as well. I seem to encounter too many Swedish, Spanish or Italian words that look familiar to me but I've either forgotten them or never knew them. Thursday and Friday I felt like dabbling with Hungarian again, but I got a little confused after I tried to figure out indefinite and definite conjugations of verbs. I think this has something to do with definite and indefinite objects but I don't really know. I think I'll learn Finnish to a higher level first. Maybe I'll learn Hungarian for the next 6WC or add it to my permanent list of languages to learn, but who knows anything could happen. Hyviä öitä Mick Edited by mick33 on 11 September 2012 at 10:19am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5917 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish | Message 84 of 108 21 September 2012 at 10:41am | IP Logged |
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When I wrote that anything could happen I had no idea that I would get sick and stay sick with either a nasty cold or flu for over a week. But that is what happened, and I'm still not feeling well today.
When I wasn't feeling too sick, I decided that I needed to plug some gaps in my vocabulary for all my languages. It bothered me that I didn't know words like nausea, headache, dizziness, cough, and sneeze in Finnish, Swedish, Polish or Italian. Even worse, I had also missed out on these words in Afrikaans and Spanish. This is a serious problem, especially not knowing the word headache so I now offer a few short word lists: Finnish kuvotus - nausea (maybe also pahoinvointi but I'm not sure) päänsärky - headache huimaus - dizziness yskä - cough; yskiä - to cough aivastaa - to sneeze Swedish illamående - nausea en huvudvärk - headache svindel - dizziness (unsure of this one maybe yrsel is another word for it?) hosta - to cough (also a noun but I'm too tired to check the gender) nysa - to sneeze Polish nudności - nausea ból głowy - headache zawroty głowy - dizziness kaszleć - to cough kichać - to sneeze Italian la nausea - nausea la cefalea - headache il capogiro - dizziness tossire - to cough starnutire - to sneeze Afrikaans naarheid - nausea hoofpyn - headache lighoofdigheid - dizziness hoes - to cough nies - sneeze Spanish la náusea - nausea la cefalea - headache mareo - dizziness toser - to cough estornudar - to sneeze I'll have more to write in my next post, but I need more sleep right now. buenas noches Mick Edited by mick33 on 22 September 2012 at 8:43pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5917 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish | Message 85 of 108 23 September 2012 at 2:04am | IP Logged |
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I'm not sure if I've reached a milestone in Finnish or if I've hit a wall. I've discovered that are a few ways to say or write "to like" as in to like something or like to do something and I'm not sure what the differences between them are.
I thought I already knew and understood that a good way to say "I like something" is to use one of two verbs: "pitää" or "tykätä". I think tykätä is more colloquial, but I don't really know. According to Teach Yourself Finnish, I would use a conjugated form of "pitää" or "tykätä" + an object which requires the use of the elatiivi ending to say "Pidän maidosta."*, or borrowing a sentence from the book "Tykkään suklaasta". These sentences mean "I like milk" and "I like chocolate" respectively. This also works with people so I can say "Pidän sinusta" (I like you). Of course, I can't learn how to say I like something without also learning how to say I don't like something. I would use the same verbs and case ending as in the previous paragraph to say things like "En pidä oluesta" (I don't like beer) or "En tykkää ruisleipästä" (I don't like rye bread). Using "pitää" or "tykätä" + sta/stä is simple and easy to remember, but as always happens with languages there are other ways to express liking or not liking something. Reading from uusikielemme.fi I l find a slightly more complex thought such as "I like to do" something can be as simple as saying "Tykkään syödä lihaa" (I like to eat meat.) but here the use "pitää" makes things a little more complicated as it requires any verb that follows it to be in the fourth infinitive as well as using the ending "sta/stä" and then I get "Pidän matkustamisesta" (I like to travel) another sentence I copied from TY Finnish. So far so good, I can understand and easily remember these constructions. I will need to learn more about the fourth infinitive form of verbs and how it works because I skipped it when I wrote about the second and third infinitives in my old log, but that won't take too long. Now for the part that makes me feel frustrated. When listening to spoken Finnish I kept hearing a strange word that sound like "mielelläni". I thought I would figure out on my own but it never made sense. I looked up "mielelläni" on sanakirja.org and got the word mielellään" which is said to be an adverb that means gladly, willingly or with pleasure and which I assumed to be similar to the not easily translated Afrikaans/Dutch word "graag" except that as far as I know "graag" can't function as a verb. Mielelläni and mielellään however are related to "mieli" which can be a noun or adjective. As a noun "mieli" means mind or mood and as an adjective it means favorite. Would it be better to compare "mieli" to the Spanish verd "gustar"? I don't know, but maybe this is good way to think of it, especially since TY Finnish gives me sentences like "Ajan mielelläni polkupyöralla" (I like riding a bike) and "Luen mielelläni" (Literally translates to something like "I read with pleasure"). I've also been thinking about learning Hindi again, but this might take time away from Finnish. I know I will dabble with Hindi a little, but since my Finnish is at a level where I can get frustrated by "mielelläni" which I kept hearing but couldn't understand it in context I know I must be very close to making great progress and I would be crazy to stop now. hei sitten Mick EDIT: I forgot that I marked the sentence "Pidän maidosta" with a * because both words were examples of consonant gradation. Edited by mick33 on 27 September 2012 at 3:03am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6590 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 86 of 108 23 September 2012 at 1:47pm | IP Logged |
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Great list in the previous post! kuvotus isn't often used as a noun, the verb kuvottaa is more common. pahoinvointi is used instead, yeah, though officially it doesn't have this meaning.
Yes, tykätä is more colloquial. It's a loan from Swedish btw. Mielellään is like the German gern (and perhaps Swedish gärna???) I'd say it's mostly used when the 4th infinitive would be too much of a hassle. Just pay attention from now on and you'll get a feel for that:) I'm not sure what you mean about using as a verb - mielellään certainly can't be. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5917 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish | Message 87 of 108 24 September 2012 at 9:33pm | IP Logged |
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Interesting, so pahoinvointi is used more often than kuvotus, I'll change that in the wordlist.
It's also good to know that tykätä is another Swedish loan. I like finding those loans from Swedish, and other IE languages, because it's fun to see how Finns often change the spellings of loanwords a little bit. Finding out that mielellään is probably more like gärna is a relief and that makes more sense than what I was thinking. Edited by mick33 on 24 September 2012 at 9:40pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5917 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish | Message 88 of 108 27 September 2012 at 3:26am | IP Logged |
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I have officially started learning Hindi! I was also considering Tamil, Telugu, Marathi and Sanskrit and maybe I will eventually learn these languages to some level but aside from Sanskrit there aren't many resources for learning these languages that I could easily find and use. My readers probably remember that I did dabble with Hindi last spring but aside from learning a few letters of Devanagari script and some random vocabulary I didn't get far. I've been learning the Devanagari script for the last few days and also listening to some Hindi as well. No grammar just yet, I want to get used to the Devanagari letters and how the language sounds first. Yes, if anyone is wondering, this does mean that I will be learning Hindi for the next 6WC.
After I eat dinner and study (you could substitute study for reading or listening to) Finnish, I will have more to write. Since I wrote message #85 above, I've been learning about the fourth infinitive and the long form of the first infinitive, but I want to find examples in written and spoken Finnish so that I can see these grammatical features in some kind of context. नमस्ते namaste Mick Edited by mick33 on 27 September 2012 at 9:01am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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