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Racism and Language Learning | ||
Tags: Discrimination | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Akira Trilingual Tetraglot Newbie Singapore Joined 6834 days ago 11 posts - 12 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin*, Cantonese*, Japanese Studies: French | Message 73 of 90 09 May 2009 at 6:41pm | IP Logged | ||
Jiwon, I am considering learning Korean because I already know Chinese and Japanese (I am Chinese Singaporean). However I have heard that Koreans have some negative stereotypes about Chinese(especially PRC citizens) and am unsure about how I will be treated in Korea... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| chelovek Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6093 days ago 413 posts - 461 votes  5 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Russian | Message 74 of 90 09 May 2009 at 8:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'm black and am going to Russia. I'll admit, the same thoughts entered my mind, but consider just how racist the US was and still is. Only a small amount of each population is actually crazy enough to be violent. The main difference is that in Russia the groups can get away with it these days. So...I'm going to be weary, but my research suggests that it isn't bad enough that I should skip out on the biggest country in the world. Besides, there are black Russians and black foreign students living there permanently, and I'm sure most are able to live their lives just fine.
For Western European languages? Bah...don't even worry about it. I never felt out of place or threatened (for racist reasons) in any of those countries, and I'd say you're much more likely to encounter an open racist in the US than in France, Spain, etc. And by the way, don't think that just because a given country has a lot of racists that means that most normal people there are racist. I live in Canada and there's a sizeable Russian/Ukrainian immigrant population here, and I've never met one that was racist or prejudiced in the least. Hell, a lot seem to be excited to meet different people. Reading the experiences of other travelers, it seems that a black person in Russia will be more likely to be treated as a novelty than as something undesirable. Edited by chelovek on 09 May 2009 at 8:25pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| pmiller Account terminated Groupie Canada Joined 5680 days ago 99 posts - 104 votes Speaks: English* | Message 75 of 90 26 May 2009 at 10:00am | IP Logged | ||
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Ashley - if you're primarily worried about your physical safety, I'm thinking that as a woman you don't have to worry about that so much. I'm pretty sure most racist/skinhead type attacks target guys, not girls.
Regarding Russia, don't the skinheads there primarily target immigrants from Caucasian and Central Asian former SSRs? I mean Georgians (the country, not the American state!), Armenians, Azerbaijanis, Kazakhs, Tajiks, etc. People who look like Borat, basically. As for Germany, I heard the former East Germany can be a bit rough - I think most of the skinheads are over there. A female black American friend of mine had a great time in Germany - contrary to American stereotypes about "Nazi/racist Germans", I don't think Germans are very racist towards blacks (but they are towards Turks, Muslims, and people who look Turkish or Middle Eastern). Another black American woman I knew had very good experience in Turkey, but she was over there on a business trip and was presumably well taken care of by company contacts - so that may have affected her experience for the positive. As for France, my impression is that they have a high regard for black people, similar to how American whites generally have a high regard for East Asian people. (See the French movie "Diva"). I think French people think in terms of culture more than race. The better your French (and your adherence to French customs/culture), the better you'll be accepted there. By the same token, Muslims (primarily Middle Eastern, but some black) are not well accepted there because Islam goes against French sensibilities on many levels, and is essentially a very alien culture competing with French culture. Just think how the French despise the competition from American culture, which has the same spiritual roots in the French Enlightenment and is practically the same as French culture when you compare both to Islamic culture. Then you can see imagine how the French would feel towards Islamic culture and the people who champion it (Muslims). Hence, dress and behave like a sophisticated secular French black woman, and take care NOT to dress or behave like French black Muslim. I have more experience in East and Southeast Asian countries, and statistically speaking, these are the countries that have by FAR the lowest crime rates in the world, and I don't think you will feel physically threatened in any of them, especially as a female (possible exception: the Philippines, which has the highest crime rate in Asia). If you want to learn Spanish, I would think Cuba, Dominican Republic or Puerto Rico would all be very suitable, since the people are mostly black or mulatto. Brazil (Portuguese) is too, but they have a very high crime rate in general. Other Spanish speaking Latin American countries have black or mulatto areas which may or may not be options for you (no idea how safe they are or how accepting of a black American they would be): Venezuela, Colombia, Panama, Mexico (generally along these countries Caribbean coasts). For French, there's also French Caribbean islands like Martinique and Guadalupe, which are mostly black. And have you considered Ethiopia? Some of the gentlest, nicest people I've ever met (the ones who made it to the US - I don't know how representative they are of Ethiopians in general). Plus, they have one of the best cuisines in the world! If you wanted to learn some really off-beat African languages, you might try Botswana or Namibia - these are probably the safest, most developed, most prosperous countries in all of Africa. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Paramecium Tetraglot Groupie Germany Joined 5718 days ago 46 posts - 59 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Russian Studies: Japanese | Message 76 of 90 26 May 2009 at 11:40am | IP Logged | ||
I completely disagree. The "Neonazis" here in Germany are racist towards blacks too, even more then towards other ethnics. When there were reports about killed people by neonazis in the last years (2008 was killed 5 person), most of them was German left-wingers or black. Fortunately the nazis here are a minority, in east and in west-germany. Nobody who comes to Germany should be afraid about that problem. I think we have even less neonazis than most other countries. Germany is one of the safest countries and I would be much more afraid walking as a white on street in New York or Moscow, than walking here as a black in east Germany. Edited by Paramecium on 26 May 2009 at 11:40am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5844 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 77 of 90 26 May 2009 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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Ditto comment from Paramecium - the average German person is tolerant and open minded to the extreme. More so than the average European, for sure.
Germany has accepted a lot of immigration and refugees from non-European countries (Turkey, Iran, Iraq). Understandably there are sometimes issues with the integration of these people into an originally homogenous country like Germany. They have trouble with the language, the culture and finding suitable jobs. However the German state and regular people across the board are generally amazingly supportive of these foreigners. The few neo-nazis that exist in Germany are poorly adjusted youth for the most part. The reason they get attention is because of the legacy of the original Nazis in Germany. But the truth is that there are probably just as many neo-nazis in England, Scandinavia and Eastern Europe -- again poorly adjusted kids. Politically Germany rarely asserts itself as much as it could do in Europe. It has been a big supporter of EU expansion and financial support in Eastern Europe - even though this is costing the DE taxpayer. Germany and Germans today is comparably a very decent country. In light of all this, throwing the nazi-ghost in the face of modern Germans is wrong. Edited by cordelia0507 on 26 May 2009 at 3:30pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5844 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 78 of 90 26 May 2009 at 1:00pm | IP Logged | ||
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Interesting to hear about Chelovek's experience and it's great to hear that you stay positive and share your experiences. I hope you keep travelling in Europe.
Personally I have NEVER met a black American in Europe. Somebody like this would be a cool novelty to most Europeans. The minority of Europeans who actually have an issue with black people are basing this on the troubles with integrating refugees from rural Africa in Europe. The culture of most African refugees is very different to that in Europe. As a result all sorts of problems arise. But these people would have an equally big problem with anybody non-native to their country who had trouble assimilating into the new country and lived off welfare year after year. There reservations are not particularly against black people. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tritone Senior Member United States reflectionsinpo Joined 6126 days ago 246 posts - 385 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, French | Message 79 of 90 29 May 2009 at 11:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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All of my friends(black) who have traveled to Europe or Asia (Germany, Italy, Korea, Japan) had very positive experiences, and say that being black and American has the opposite effect entirely than what one would expect.
1 person has voted this message useful |
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