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’wh’ sound in American English | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Rout Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5712 days ago 326 posts - 417 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish Studies: Hindi | Message 57 of 110 29 May 2009 at 7:24am | IP Logged | |||||
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Upon further review of the wiki article it states that the King James Bible (English that as you know was archaic language even for its time) and William Shakespeare used early modern English which is different than modern English. This is also known as Elizabethan English (which I added). Its use as evidence for a 'failing' argument was incorrect so I feel no need to correct it.
If you ever took college courses, secondary school or for that matter courses from any accredited institution then you would know that the use of wikipedia articles are not permitted as substantiation for schoolwork. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| zerothinking Senior Member Australia Joined 6372 days ago 528 posts - 772 votes Speaks: English* | Message 58 of 110 29 May 2009 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
Nope. I had an Irish teacher who used to say 'wHite' with the 'h' and it was hilarious. Everyone ripped on him for it but it was all in good fun. Here is a funny clip from Family Guy that rips on it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lich59xsjik As you can see it's not common and doesn't exist in the Australian, New Zealand, or American accent. It doesn't occur in the main accents of UKÂ English either. Also, why can't you just listen? You can't hear it can you? Just listen to native speakers and you'll see there isn't any 'h'. :) Edited by zerothinking on 29 May 2009 at 12:49pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| rapp Senior Member United States Joined 5731 days ago 129 posts - 204 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Esperanto, Spanish | Message 59 of 110 29 May 2009 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | |||||
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<<1. The dictionary I have that has only the transliteration 'hwut' is the New American Webster dictionary I believe from around the 60's. I have it buried in some other books but I could get you a date if you require it to accredit my argument. If you wanted the name all you had to do was ask.>>
And what makes this dictionary the definitive source? I gave you 4 links that all list 'wut' as an acceptable pronunciation. It also odd that this is your source, when your original statement was this: <<The CORRECT pronunciation of 'wh' is with aspirition. What = "HWUT" - READ AN OLDER DICTIONARY. This is why I have no respect for Webster's and the like.>> Shifty allegiances there, Rout. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| rapp Senior Member United States Joined 5731 days ago 129 posts - 204 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Esperanto, Spanish | Message 60 of 110 29 May 2009 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
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<<3. Because I have conviction in my stance you feel the need to attack me because you hold an undecided and illogical stance that 'wat' is correct just because you say so with absolutely no evidence that the usage is correct. >>
As I've already stated, I presented 4 links that all list 'wut' as an acceptable pronunciation. Are you simply reduced to lies now? << 'what' is the correct pronunciation of 'what.'>> If you replaced 'the' with 'a' you would be correct, and your argument would be internally consistent. You yourself said that we have established a "mostly uniform" standard of speech, "except in a phonetic sense". That must mean that there is acceptable variation in the pronunciation of at least some words, and I've provided evidence that 'what' is one of those words. You've provided nothing. You are simply wrong. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| rapp Senior Member United States Joined 5731 days ago 129 posts - 204 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Esperanto, Spanish | Message 61 of 110 29 May 2009 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | |||||
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<<If you ever took college courses, secondary school or for that matter courses from any accredited institution then you would know that the use of wikipedia articles are not permitted as substantiation for schoolwork.>>
Yes, but thankfully wikipedia is the definitive source when arguing with internet trolls. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Rout Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5712 days ago 326 posts - 417 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish Studies: Hindi | Message 62 of 110 29 May 2009 at 8:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
It's hard to be civilized with an asshole. I don't respect Websters because they've consistently published one pronunciation since the early 19th century and suddenly decided to change. That was the ENTIRE POINT that I used that name? I am going to repeat this one more time: EVERY DICTIONARY BEFORE THE LAST HALF OF THE 20TH CENTURY PROVIDED ONE PRONUNCIATION OF 'WHAT' AND THAT'S THE ONLY ONE I FEEL SHOULD BE USED. Anyone who has never heard 'what' be pronounced phonetically is a very sheltered person. MOST of the people on NPR and other intellectual and educational radio programs pronounce it phonetically. MOST. If all you listen to is love alternative rock 106.3 or whatever then you don't get much exposure to educated usage, hence your current pronunciation. 'what' IS a phonetic English word and I said some of the loanwords we have should not discredit it as such. You completely avoided my point and decided that I was presenting evidence for your argument? Uhm, no. If you're going to use my statements against me then you should quote them in the full. We shouldn't further mangle our language into some incomprehensible gibberish that has nothing to do with the way it's written. I didn't say you can't say 'wut' you just sound like an idiot which you have proved that you are. You make me panicky with your 3-6 dissections of my statements and your irrational replies. I really want you to think this out then write down your thoughts and evidence that I shouldn't say 'what' in a analytical and coherent manner. Educated usage = 'what' Common usage = 'wat' Thank you for listing those dictionaries; I know what not to buy now. I have given you a few reasons for why you might not want to say 'wat' just give me one reason for not saying 'what.' Noah Webster wanted the term 'through' to be spelled 'thru' did you know that? Do you agree with that? Do you do everything everyone tells you without any original thoughts of your own? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Rout Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5712 days ago 326 posts - 417 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish Studies: Hindi | Message 63 of 110 29 May 2009 at 8:37pm | IP Logged | |||||
Again, a sheltered and uneducated observation. Lots of people say 'what' phonetically and the majority of well spoken and educated people do. At the very least the people who are educated in related issues. Listen to a news broadcast sometime. Don't give a definitive answer to something you absolutely have no idea about. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| lynxrunner Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United States crittercryptics.com Joined 5922 days ago 361 posts - 461 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish*, French Studies: Russian, Swedish, Haitian Creole | Message 64 of 110 30 May 2009 at 4:17am | IP Logged | |||||
Is your argument composed of anything other than 'you are a sheltered and uneducated fool go read a REAL dictionary or REAL news'? In addition, I must say that I've lost track of this argument. Are we arguing that 'hwat' is the correct pronunciation, that it is the most common pronunciation, or that it should be the correct pronunciation? Please, don't ask me to re-read the thread, as it seems that this argument has derailed from its original intention... whatever it was. 'hwat', in my opinion, seems to be something used among people who want to seem educated, but aren't necessarily educated. This is from personal experience. It could be that there are, indeed, many educated Americans of all ages that say 'hwat' and my poor, sheltered experience has prevented me from accepting the true pronunciation of 'what'. I would say, from my experience, that both 'wat' and 'hwat' are acceptable pronunciations, but I have to say that even among educated people, 'hwat' is becoming rarer and I believe that eventually, in the US at least, 'wat' will be the standard and 'hwat' will be relegated to the status of 'something used by old people to appear intelligent'. As for the argument of which should be the proper pronunciation, I don't care. Other than 'Wales' and 'Whales', are there any other words that become homophones without the 'hw' sound? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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