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Why isn’t Hindi a "popular" language? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| stephen_g Groupie Canada Joined 6333 days ago 44 posts - 84 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Italian | Message 73 of 197 23 December 2010 at 7:00pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Metamucil,
Please see the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi_Belt The maps provided aren't perfect. Keep in mind that Hindi is essentially a standardised register of a Delhi-based "dialect". There's considerable variation within the Hindi zone, even when trimmed down to only include Haryana, Uttar Pradesh and Madhya Pradesh. Braj, spoken in portions of Uttar Pradesh, was the most common dialect in religious writing amongst Hindus before the rise of "Khari Boli" as both Urdu and Hindi. Having said that, anyone who is well educated, engages with media or is in an urban area within the so-called "Hindi Belt" can easily communicate in standard Hindi, even if there's quite some distance between Hindi and their native language. Rajasthani, for example, is significantly closer to Gujarati than Hindi, yet is often named a Hindi "dialect". Keep in mind that Hindi is most definitely the Indian language which gives you the most bang for your buck. It is officially the national language, meaning you find it in government establishments across the country. It also has national reach due to the popularity of Bollywood. Though knowledge of Hindi is low in the South, many Punjabis can communicate in Hindi, and knowledge of Hindi isn't uncommon amongst educated Maharashtrans and Bengalis, either. You don't get this with any other Indian language... Apart from Indian English ;) Lucky Charms, Though Urdu is seeing a decline in its "purity" just as Hindi is, Urdu speakers are much more proud of their refined register than Hindi speakers are. While "Shuddh" Hindi (Pure Hindi) is associated with Hindu nationalists, stubborn anti-English inward- looking intellectuals or out-of-touch government officials, "pure" Urdu is celebrated and revered by wider society. This is in part due to the fact that Shuddh Hindi feels much more manufactured. Hindi's standardisation process began at a later point in history than Urdu's. In reality, however, Urdu has also had to adopt a great deal of loans post-independence. Urdu newscasts are peppered with Arabic words coined in Urdu at some point in the last 60 years, just as Hindi newscasts are peppered with Sanskrit neologisms. Bengali and Tamil speakers are much more proud of their languages than the average Hindi speaker. The same goes for Punjabis, but NOT many urban Punjabis. I've been here in Punjab since July and have come across many who use Hindi or English to "dominate" others in social situations. It is used to demonstrate the speaker's level of education, therefore simultaneously denigrating the listener's. There are also many who have been educated in Hindi schools and simply feel uncomfortable speaking Punjabi, despite growing up in the heart of Indian Punjab. Those educated in English schools often don't speak any single language well, unfortunately. Their academic English is littered with various errors and they don't have an advanced Punjabi vocabulary. Edited by stephen_g on 23 December 2010 at 7:04pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| lerner Groupie Germany Joined 5822 days ago 51 posts - 79 votes Speaks: Hindi* Studies: EnglishC2, GermanC1, Spanish, Dutch | Message 74 of 197 24 December 2010 at 12:10am | IP Logged | ||||||||
As a native Hindi speaker, i can only corroborate Stephen's observation. My mother's family speaks the Braj-dialect and it took me a while before I began to understand what was being spoken. I still have problems with it. (Though, that might be due to the fact that I tend to find the dialect rather rustic and uncouth.) Quite a few dialects diverge greatly from standard spoken Hindi.
Now, were I too say that, I'd be labeled a Hindu nationalist without a second's delay :)
The "dominating" bit is certainly true. I too have noticed people switching from Hindi to English for no apparent reason. The only reason I can think of is that they want to display their command of English, or rather the lack thereof. The part about most students educated in English schools not speaking any language well is again true. Basic English is fine, but as soon as it comes to ..... say something like reading Dickens, quite a large number of these people would find themselves at sea. Truth is, most people remain at an intermediate level in the language throughout their lives. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| stephen_g Groupie Canada Joined 6333 days ago 44 posts - 84 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Italian | Message 75 of 197 24 December 2010 at 8:26am | IP Logged | ||||||||
You're definitely right! It's not as if most English natives are eloquent writers or speakers, either. I hope what I said didn't come across as an attack upon Indians. I'll clarify a bit. There are many Indians who attend English schools and attain what can only be described as complete mastery over the language. Their writing is nearly indistinguishable from the English of other writers worldwide, save for a few regionalisms that may subtly appear, which is normal. The problem I've noticed in Punjab is that a lot of English- medium schools exist in which the instructors themselves have a flawed command of English. These aren't the more elite private schools, but the average school within reach of your average middle class Punjabi. It's no surprise that the students have bad spelling, awkward syntax, improper tense usage and other such problems when they are being educated by educators without a proper grasp on the language, themselves. I'd imagine that the situation is similar elsewhere across India, outside of the major urban areas. In addition to the language problem, many acknowledge that the actual quality of education is better in the Punjabi schools than in average English ones, but parents send their children off to these schools anyway so that they are more employable later in life. These English schools are not schools so much as cramming centers (though to be honest, it seems cramming is a problem in all levels of schooling here in South Asia). While English is empowering in its lifting of Indians out of poverty and into the middle class, its wider impact on Indian society is much more complex a situation. 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| horshod Pentaglot Groupie India Joined 5774 days ago 74 posts - 107 votes Speaks: Hindi, Marathi*, Bengali, Gujarati, English Studies: German, Spanish, Turkish | Message 76 of 197 24 December 2010 at 10:26pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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We had Hindi from the 5th grade up to the 10th grade in school. But being in Pune
(Maharashtra, India), I almost never had a chance to speak Hindi. The text book Hindi was boring beyond limits and the real Hindi teacher was Bollywood movies. From my experience I wonder if one can learn a language just by watching movies... Because I could perfectly understand almost 99% of a Bollywood movie even before 5th grade and there was not a single Hindi speaker around; movies (and TV shows) being the only learning resource. After coming to the US I met this amazing friend of mine who is from Delhi who speaks Hindi with such an awesome Punjabi accent! I absolutely love talking to her in Hindi and thanks to her my Hindi has improved so much over the past year that she says I sound totally like a native speaker (And I do too :P)! I enjoy speaking Hindi =D Yeah, but I don't see too many people around interested in learning it.. I sometimes see the Hindi learning book checked out from the library.. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| robsolete Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5389 days ago 191 posts - 428 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Arabic (Written), Mandarin | Message 77 of 197 26 December 2010 at 7:12am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I can only relay some of my experiences as a teacher in rural Karnataka, near the
Andhra border. While Bangalore itself has a lot of Hindi speakers, most rural Kannadiga only had a passing familiarity with the language. Kannada was the only language they really spoke, though the closer you got to the border the more Kannada/Telugu bilinguals you would find. The kids at my school took Hindi but weren't really conversant in it. They watched Bollywood movies and seemed to understand most everything though. There seemed to be a generational split as well. Older folks barely spoke any English in the villages, but those with some education would know a bit of Hindi. The younger Kannadigas, though, seemed more comfortable with English and sort of saw Hindi as just for the movies or national pride. My guess would be that most people in rural Karnataka had a high *passive* understanding of Hindi and its cultural output, but couldn't speak it well themselves. Teachers who "went North" for business often said they would speak a mishmash of Hindi and English to get by since their Hindi wasn't strong enough to be their only tool. These are fairly educated people. I definitely did sense a bit of irritation from many parents/teachers, though, at the fact that their kids were still being forced to learn Hindi. They find it unfair that their school resources have to be spread over three languages (Kannada, Hindi, English) while the Hindi states only teach Hindi and English. Why strain the schools even more when all the kids on both sides will still speak a common language: English? In the last decade there have been more Kannada activists out advocating for the removal of Hindi, much like has happened in Tamil Nadu since Independence. I think that the Dravidian states, after being relegated as cultural inferiors to the Persian/Aryan north for so long, are starting to feel a little more proud now that the southern states have been some of the most economically successful. English is, ironically, becoming a tool for them to fend off what they see as Hindi "cultural imperialism" of a sort. Now, I'm not saying there's some sort of revolution on the brink here. But after a few conversations with people over the course of months, I got the impression that Hindi will likely be declining in South India in the next few decades. You have to remember that the South was being invaded by Indus Valley "superiors" for centuries before the British even landed, so the resentments can run deep and quiet. The Tamil have been by far the most outspoken about this, but I did get the sense that the other Dravidians seemed to be more inspired by their example nowadays. But then again, I didn't exactly speak to everyone so my opinion as an outsider only goes so far. 9 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| zerothinking Senior Member Australia Joined 6376 days ago 528 posts - 772 votes Speaks: English* | Message 78 of 197 26 December 2010 at 7:50am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Because people don't learn languages just because of how many speakers it has.
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| anothername Triglot Groupie Brazil Joined 5065 days ago 96 posts - 195 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Spanish, English | Message 79 of 197 26 January 2011 at 3:12am | IP Logged | ||||||||
My friend, I saw your later posts about learning polish and norwegian being more useful to catch beautiful ladies. So: 1) catching ladies of your liking is not the only reason to learning languages: indian culture is superbly rich, as well as its economy; 2) even if it were, don't be surprised, but some people ARE attracted to darker-skinned ladies; 3) if you are not interested in a specific language (or, more precisely, in the women who speak this language), why to get into an internet forum and try to dissuade people from learn it with pointless arguments? BTW, I'm european white, and have no link whatsoever with India, besides the admiration and respect for its culture, people, language, etc. And I suspect the major hindi detractors are 1) utilitarians who speak English as their mother tongue and are very confortable with the second largest population on earth speaking English and abandoning their cultural heritage; and 2) tamil separatists who can't see the importance of having a strong language uniting a whole country. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4913 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 80 of 197 29 June 2011 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
The reason you hear phrases like "avoid it" and such is that English is so ingrained in India that it has its own grammar and its own slang. Look at the grammar checker in Microsoft Word, and you will find English (Indian). The phrases used in Main Hoon Na are not meant to sound incorrect or ludicrous. They are supposed to sound cool. Look at the characters who use those phrases; they are the cool characters, not the comical ones. Another factor which I don't think was mentioned is that many of the most prestigious universities in India deliver their education in English. Indians who can afford it prefer to go to university overseas and return to India. Given that their highest level studies were in English, it is no surprise if their highest level discussions occur in English. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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