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horshod Pentaglot Groupie India Joined 5774 days ago 74 posts - 107 votes Speaks: Hindi, Marathi*, Bengali, Gujarati, English Studies: German, Spanish, Turkish
| Message 121 of 197 01 March 2014 at 2:49pm | IP Logged |
I have always wished they had made Sanskrit our
national language or the official language of
communication, especially after recently reading
that Sanskrit lost by only one vote. That way all
states get to learn a new language. Plus it would
have been one of the biggest language revivals
ever.
3 persons have voted this message useful
| napoleon Tetraglot Senior Member India Joined 5020 days ago 543 posts - 874 votes Speaks: Bengali*, English, Hindi, Urdu Studies: French, Arabic (Written)
| Message 122 of 197 01 March 2014 at 3:22pm | IP Logged |
horshod wrote:
I have always wished they had made Sanskrit our
national language or the official language of
communication, especially after recently reading
that Sanskrit lost by only one vote. That way all
states get to learn a new language. Plus it would
have been one of the biggest language revivals
ever. |
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Yeah. I guess. They resurrected Hebrew in Israel, didn't they?
English was a convenient choice for the founding fathers. Moreover, choosing Sanskrit might not have pleased the minorities who might have demanded that Persian and Arabic be made official languages as well. And then we would have ended up with 3 official languages that nobody speaks in India. :-)
Then again, standard Hindi has been sanskritised to the point where it is nearly incomprehensible to those of our fellow citizens (even those from the Hindi belt) who do not have the benefit of an education.
Edited by napoleon on 01 March 2014 at 3:42pm
1 person has voted this message useful
| linguaholic_ch Triglot Groupie IndiaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5052 days ago 69 posts - 96 votes Speaks: English, Hindi, Bengali Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, French
| Message 123 of 197 01 March 2014 at 4:52pm | IP Logged |
napoleon wrote:
linguaholic_ch wrote:
No one is forced to learn a language.A Tamil
person doesn't have to learn Hindi unless
required.
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Indeed.
And I'm very happy it's that way.
We should not forget what
happened in Bangladesh when they tried to impose Urdu on an unwilling populace.
linguaholic_ch wrote:
Hindi is a language that unites us all(the Indian citizens), and so it is not
hatred or compulsion.
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Really? Why is it Hindi that unites us and not Bengali? Or any other Indian language
for that matter?
Our national anthem is in Bengali. What makes Hindi better than any other Indian
language?
It is this dilemma that has forced us to retain English's official status in
independent India. English, despite its colonial past, is perceived as neutral. It is a
compromise. And a rather good one.
Forcing Hindi on those who don't want it does not bring them closer. It merely pushes
them away.
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Ofcourse, I am sorry for saying that only Hindi unites us all. Learning Languages is a
noble thing I believe and thinking it to belong to a particular community is a hoax.
Learning a language helps us with our brain keeping fit too. I believe an error lies in
the fact that the government classify people in India as minority but not as Indians.
This causes division and strife.
3 persons have voted this message useful
| napoleon Tetraglot Senior Member India Joined 5020 days ago 543 posts - 874 votes Speaks: Bengali*, English, Hindi, Urdu Studies: French, Arabic (Written)
| Message 124 of 197 01 March 2014 at 5:22pm | IP Logged |
linguaholic_ch wrote:
...
I believe an error lies in
the fact that the government classify people in India as minority but not as Indians.
This causes division and strife. |
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Well said. :-)
2 persons have voted this message useful
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4953 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean
| Message 125 of 197 02 March 2014 at 4:10pm | IP Logged |
napoleon wrote:
English, despite its colonial past, is perceived as neutral. It is a compromise. And a rather good one.
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It is not a good compromise if it means you are totally suppressing or even destroying in the process your native languages (and with it a huge part of your culture). It is merely either practicality taken to a nearly implausible extreme or an act of expediency by the government and the society.
And don't get me wrong, I get it. People will do what it takes to cling to an environment of security, and English brings that to such a ethnically diverse nation like India (for now... I think eventually if there are fundamental differences in the society they will come roaring out, especially when those societies really feel threatened. Language extinction is a major trigger of that!)
I don't want to sound so negative, and I am really no-one to judge as I am not Indian, but that is how I see it. English is no compromise at all, it is a plughole in a leaking dam. Unless the underlying problem is not fixed (ethnic rivalries within India), the problem will find its way out another way. And using English will never fix that, it will just have killed part of your heritage in an attempt to suppress your heritage coming out and creating tensions.
It would be like China adopting English or some other European language to appease the Cantonese, the Tibetans, the Uyghurs, etc.
3 persons have voted this message useful
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 4086 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German
| Message 126 of 197 02 March 2014 at 6:38pm | IP Logged |
outcast wrote:
It is not a good compromise if it means you are totally suppressing or even destroying
in the process your native languages (and with it a huge part of your culture). It is
merely either practicality taken to a nearly implausible extreme or an act of
expediency by the government and the society.
And don't get me wrong, I get it. People will do what it takes to cling to an
environment of security, and English brings that to such a ethnically diverse nation
like India (for now... I think eventually if there are fundamental differences in the
society they will come roaring out, especially when those societies really feel
threatened. Language extinction is a major trigger of that!)
I don't want to sound so negative, and I am really no-one to judge as I am not Indian,
but that is how I see it. English is no compromise at all, it is a plughole in a
leaking dam. Unless the underlying problem is not fixed (ethnic rivalries within
India), the problem will find its way out another way. And using English will never fix
that, it will just have killed part of your heritage in an attempt to suppress your
heritage coming out and creating tensions.
It would be like China adopting English or some other European language to appease the
Cantonese, the Tibetans, the Uyghurs, etc.
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LOL. English is just a language. How is foisting Hindi on someone who speaks Tamil so
much better than letting English be an alternative?
Hindi is alive and well. Bollywood has ensured that the various language communities
are learning it by choice rather than resenting it for having had it forced on
them.
India has now the best of both worlds: people learning Hindi by choice, and prevalence
of English making it easier for the country to be a hospitable place for international
business.
And FYI, China is making a push to learn English. It is importing English teachers
from USA/UK to teach elementary school kids.
Edited by Gemuse on 02 March 2014 at 6:39pm
3 persons have voted this message useful
| lichtrausch Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5964 days ago 525 posts - 1072 votes Speaks: English*, German, Japanese Studies: Korean, Mandarin
| Message 127 of 197 02 March 2014 at 7:02pm | IP Logged |
Gemuse wrote:
India has now the best of both worlds
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No it doesn't. I'm just going to talk about North India because the situation in South India is different. English is yet another element that is driving a wedge between the upper and lower classes. In order to climb the socioeconomic ladder, hundreds of millions of North Indians who speak either Hindi, or a language that is closely related to Hindi, are asked to climb over another hurdle by learning advanced English. And of course those North Indians who come from privileged families master this extra hurdle much easier in their expensive, exclusive private schools. In Japan, a talented engineering student who struggles learning English is able to have a good career and lead a fulfilling life. In India, that talented engineering student who struggles learning English will see his upwards path cut off and his dreams crushed.
3 persons have voted this message useful
| Lugubert Heptaglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 6871 days ago 186 posts - 235 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Danish, Norwegian, EnglishC2, German, Dutch, French Studies: Mandarin, Hindi
| Message 128 of 197 02 March 2014 at 8:12pm | IP Logged |
lichtrausch wrote:
English is yet another element that is driving a wedge between the upper and lower classes. In order to climb the socioeconomic ladder, hundreds of millions of North Indians who speak either Hindi, or a language that is closely related to Hindi, are asked to climb over another hurdle by learning advanced English. |
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All over the world, kids learn English. They expect to be exposed to at least some English when employed. There must be other problems in your system if learning English is seen as a problem.
There probably have been changes, but when I went to school in Sweden, we were taught English from age 11. (It's probably earlier now.) When I studied for my engineering degree, almost all course books were in English, which I by then had had in school for eight years.
So, what makes English such an obstacle in India?
1 person has voted this message useful
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