Why don’t people here like Rosetta Stone? (Language Programs, Books & Tapes) Language Learning Forum

Why don’t people here like Rosetta Stone?
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johntm93
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Message 57 of 93

01 July 2010 at 7:05pm | IP Logged

dec_lan wrote:

johntm93 wrote:

cm006j wrote:

Anyway, just pure emotional response from me.

Have you ever thought about it logically? Just wondering, because sometimes an emotional response isn't always the best one.

Also, I haven't personally used it myself (I have read a lot of reviews though, and my dad has a demo disc that I won't use), but the whole premise of "learning like a child" doesn't seem like the best idea for me. If you already know a language (or more), why not use it to your advantage to learn another? Like mnemonic (isn't that what they're called?) tricks and whatnot.

Also, to reverse the OP's question: Why do people like RS?

Well, any actual quality of the product aside, because of marketing. Also, for the people who it does actually work for, they'll love it because it told them "You WILL learn with this program", and they did (even if they learned in a massively inefficient way).

It's like what I said above with exercise equipment. People like to believe that an easy way has finally been found, and RS is it. RS knows this and capitalizes on it. The only reason it actually works and people buy it (where for the most part all the exercise equipment fails) is because we're so used to every single exercise equipment giving this claim. Very few other language learning programs say the the same brash stuff RS does.

That was more of a rhetorical question, I figured we all knew the answer :P
It's because of marketing (I don't think I've ever seen any other language program even advertise on TV) and it gives people a (mostly false) sense of success.
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joebelt
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Message 58 of 93

01 July 2010 at 8:25pm | IP Logged

hobbitofny wrote:

[QUOTE=Cainntear]
It might be better stated that after mastering the 15 hours of audio at 80% or better you gain 4 levels. For a person good at languages that is 15 hours. For a person slow to pick up languages (me), it is about 35 hours work.

I think it also depends on the language. I personally have done Pimsleur very efficiently for French (never needing to do the same lesson twice in level I & II) and the same can be said with Spanish, which I am going through at the moment (almost finished with level I). But both languages have a lot of similarities with English and you are exposed to them in the mainstream on a daily basis.

I've heard that Pimsleur can be more difficult with more foreign languages like Chinese, Russian, Korean, etc. That might account for the difference in rhythms between learners more so than a learner's actual ability.

Again, imagine if Rosetta had tested their Korean students. They selected Spanish--an "easier" language to cope with as a beginner--for their evaluation.
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cm006j
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Message 59 of 93

01 July 2010 at 8:32pm | IP Logged

[/QUOTE]

I think it also depends on the language. I personally have done Pimsleur very
efficiently for French (never needing to do the same lesson twice in level I & II) and
the same can be said with Spanish, which I am going through at the moment (almost
finished with level I). But both languages have a lot of similarities with English and
you are exposed to them in the mainstream on a daily basis.

I've heard that Pimsleur can be more difficult with more foreign languages like
Chinese, Russian, Korean, etc. That might account for the difference in rhythms
between learners more so than a learner's actual ability.

Again, imagine if Rosetta had tested their Korean students. They selected Spanish--an
"easier" language to cope with as a beginner--for their evaluation.[/QUOTE]

I think they tested with Spanish because that is their most popular language.

Again, I am learning Hindi, not considered easy for English speakers.

I'm curious about this Pimsleur thing, people seem to like it so much and I'd like to
give it a try.

Tell me, does it teach different scripts (as Hindi has a different script, I've been
pleased with my reading ability through Rosetta Stone)?
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joebelt
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Message 60 of 93

01 July 2010 at 8:55pm | IP Logged

cm006j wrote:

I think they tested with Spanish because that is their most popular language.

Certainly, but it underscores even more the poor test results. If most people, spending 64 hours with Rosetta's software plus 6 hours with a live tutor, reach Novice Mid (gaining only one level) with an "easier" language, it does not bode well if they did the same test with a more difficult language for beginners. That's all I'm saying.

Pimsleur is totally different from Rosetta in my experience. You can try a free lesson on their site. That lesson will be audio only. I feel like Pimsleur's goal is to give you the tools to use the language on your own. You don't memorize anything. It's kind of like building blocks. You are asked to speak from the beginning. They also teach you how to read for most languages (except Japanese I think) but that comes later in the course. Focus is certainly on conversational ability.
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cm006j
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Message 61 of 93

01 July 2010 at 9:04pm | IP Logged

joebelt wrote:

cm006j wrote:

I think they tested with Spanish because that is their most popular language.

Certainly, but it underscores even more the poor test results. If most people,
spending 64 hours with Rosetta's software plus 6 hours with a live tutor, reach Novice
Mid (gaining only one level) with an "easier" language, it does not bode well if they
did the same test with a more difficult language for beginners. That's all I'm saying.

Pimsleur is totally different from Rosetta in my experience. You can try a free lesson
on their site. That lesson will be audio only. I feel like Pimsleur's goal is to give
you the tools to use the language on your own. You don't memorize anything. It's kind
of like building blocks. You are asked to speak from the beginning. They also teach
you how to read for most languages (except Japanese I think) but that comes later in
the course. Focus is certainly on conversational ability.

I just realized my library has it, so I'll try it out.

Rosetta Stone is also no memorizing and I really like that about it! I'm curious to
learn Arabic, but I'm sure I'll buy Rosetta Stone and learn the alphabet from them so I
won't worry if Pimsleur doesn't teach reading.
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Cainntear
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Message 62 of 93

01 July 2010 at 9:25pm | IP Logged

cm006j wrote:

I think they tested with Spanish because that is their most popular language.

If you want to show off, you learn Chinese, right? Not "just" Spanish.

If RS really had something to show off, I would have expected them to go for a show-off language

Quote:

I'm curious about this Pimsleur thing, people seem to like it so much and I'd like to
give it a try.

Tell me, does it teach different scripts (as Hindi has a different script, I've been
pleased with my reading ability through Rosetta Stone)?

I'd avoid the Pimsleur Hindi course. It's almost entirely audio based and they never explain phonetics, so there's no way of knowing whether the guys saying the retroflex or dental, aspirated or unaspirated version of a sound. I stopped after one lesson because of this.
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joebelt
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Message 63 of 93

01 July 2010 at 9:33pm | IP Logged

Cainntear wrote:

It's almost entirely audio based and they never explain phonetics, so there's no way of knowing whether the guys saying the retroflex or dental, aspirated or unaspirated version of a sound. I stopped after one lesson because of this.

And you missed the whole point of their method imo. That's what I love about their course, it's not only about using your mouth (speaking) but ALSO your ears (understanding). It takes time but it's worth the effort. So many "methods" totally neglect the understanding aspect of learning a language. They slow down the speakers, give you visual support, and totally ignore the fact that ears are your friend. Michel Thomas also recognizes that asset.
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jeff_lindqvist
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Message 64 of 93

01 July 2010 at 9:49pm | IP Logged

Cainntear wrote:

Well, there are loads of aspirated/unaspirated/retroflex/dental sounds in Chinese too. I had no problems learning to identify (and say) the sounds after just the Pimsleur course(s). While I'm not really a fan of the method itself, I'd never blame Pimsleur for not teaching phonetics. I use my ears.

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