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Question about the L-R method | ||
Tags: Listening-Reading (L-R) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| aarontp Groupie United States Joined 5275 days ago 94 posts - 139 votes  | Message 65 of 89 09 September 2010 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | |||||
In my experience--it actually gets more useful the further along you get. Once you can read with good comprehension in the target language, it's far superior to listen to an audiobook, if available, while you read than just reading alone. I haven't been able to get much use out of it in the beginner stage, but that's just me. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tibbles Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5199 days ago 245 posts - 422 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Korean | Message 66 of 89 09 September 2010 at 10:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to try this since I have a separate .pdf file of the text in English and Spanish. I found some source code to extract raw text from .pdf files and will see if I can automate the process of creating an interspersed text of the two languages. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| aarontp Groupie United States Joined 5275 days ago 94 posts - 139 votes | Message 67 of 89 09 September 2010 at 11:09pm | IP Logged | |||||
Step 2 is the only step I use. My problem with parallel texts is that they so frequently deviate from each other in critical aspects as to be worthless except when I'm stumped reading in L2. That said, others seem to make beneficial use of them, so good luck trying different things. But if you can't make traditional LR work for you, try using a regular study program along with "beginners" books for language learners to boost your reading comprehension. Then move on to simple stories like "The Little Prince" and read in your target language along with the audio (in L2 of course). Try to have fun with whatever method you choose. Edited by aarontp on 10 September 2010 at 4:31am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6447 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 68 of 89 27 September 2010 at 11:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
The quality of the translation is very important. The more parallel texts I make, the more I curse most literary translators. Most translations of 'serious' literature have significant flaws, and a minority are simply butcheries, but the odds of finding a fairly good translation seem highest in this category. Translations of contemporary authors of light fiction often feel like rush jobs, unfortunately; they're usable, but a higher percent of the text is problematic. 'They so frequently deviate from each other in critical aspects as to be worthless.' is certainly true for some paragraphs; most paragraphs in all but the worst translations are usable, though, in my experience. If you find a translation this bad, pick another translation or book. Pop-up dictionaries also help, though they can't salvage horrible translations. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Teango Triglot Winner TAC 2010 & 2012 Senior Member United States teango.wordpress.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5564 days ago 2210 posts - 3734 votes Speaks: English*, German, Russian Studies: Hawaiian, French, Toki Pona | Message 69 of 89 28 September 2010 at 10:17am | IP Logged | |||||
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Volte's right on the button when it comes to finding good translations out there. The more I try to compile parallel texts, the more I end up cursing and reeling in disbelief.
For example, having bought everything I needed from bokus.com to start listening and reading Stieg Larsson's Millennium Trilogy recently, I spent yesterday evening almost pulling my hair out with frustration whilst trying to align the apalling translation. God knows, English and Swedish are not exactly worlds apart when it comes to phraseology and word order, so it didn't require a literary work of genius; but for some bizarre reason, this obvious rush-job is almost a complete rewrite and sadly does no justice to the original. The crucial roadblock in all this is that considerable chunks of paragraphs are completely missing throughout the translation, which means that the task of aligning the texts becomes almost impossible. And this is such a shame, as it would be refreshing to work with something contemporary other than Harry Potter for a change. So it's for this very reason, for all my curses over poor translations out there, that I bestow my sincerest blessings on everyone who puts the time and effort into crafting superb translations. And when I come across some pre-prepared quality parallel texts - it's pure manna from Heaven! Edited by Teango on 28 September 2010 at 10:20am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5774 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 70 of 89 28 September 2010 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Oh yes, the English Millenium translation is horrible. The German and French ones are okay though, in terms of not straying too much from the original.
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| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6280 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 71 of 89 28 September 2010 at 4:35pm | IP Logged | |||||
Quite often the good bits of the original are lost. For example, I read Frederick Forsyth's The Odessa File in German, but it lost many of the subtleties of the original. At the end of one chapter, one of the villains is shot, and tries to raise his pistol to shoot his attacker, but a bullet entering his head "spoiled his aim. It also killed him". The touch of gallows humour was lost in the German, which merely said the bullet killed him. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6447 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 72 of 89 28 September 2010 at 9:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm glad to at least have forewarning about the quality of the English Millenium translation. I've only read the books in English, and had been seriously considering making parallel texts of it for myself with an English base.
How many of the 'good bits' of the original are lost, in general, really varies. Some books are essentially untranslatable (not that that stops translations from appearing). Some nuances don't translate well - idioms, cultural ideas, and affixes are frequently mangled or ignored. However, there's absolutely no good excuse for the kind of omission William Camden mentioned... and yet, it is extremely common. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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