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Advancing Korean, Year 5/6: TAC15 東亞 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5533 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 33 of 344 30 March 2012 at 4:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
Honestly, I never really knew what the actual rule was, I just recalled seeing several words make that shift. I'll definitely try to keep that rule in mind now. Thanks. :) Also, there were actually two spelling corrections I was making, since you spelled it 전대, which is a completely different word, but it appears you may have missed that part of the correction. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| vermillon Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4676 days ago 602 posts - 1042 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, German | Message 34 of 344 30 March 2012 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
Thanks for the rule, I will still have a look at my grammar tonight, but it seems sensible indeed. I'll report here if there's something extra (like an answer to the "why???")
Vocabulary finished and now going over my leeches, killing a few every day, so quite confident on that side. I should be done with the "Intermediate Korean Grammar" by Sunday, and then I'll go hunting the structures used in past papers and that I haven't learned yet. Will also go over the past composition examples to try to imitate that a bit. It won't make me better, but now that I've improved on the Korean side, I want to optimise my score test, as it may help me later on at a professional level. Btw, my log has some tipe related to score optimisation for the TOPIK ;-) How about you? I don't think I've seen you mentioning grammar points a lot.. I've never been really concerned with that in my previous languages, but somehow for Korean, the grammar seems such an important part that I tend to be a bit worried with it... (but not worried about the outcome of the test... level 2 will be mine!) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4866 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 35 of 344 30 March 2012 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | |||||
Thanks! I totally overlooked the wrong vowel. Do you have a specific method for killing leeches? Or just a lot more repetitions? As for the "why" behind the ㅅ I really have no idea, but I guess it might have to do with vowel-length. If I heard it correctly I think the vowel is a bit shorter in the compound than in the single word. If you find an explanation, let us know :) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| vermillon Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4676 days ago 602 posts - 1042 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, German | Message 36 of 344 30 March 2012 at 4:49pm | IP Logged | |||||
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If they're leeches (not according to Anki's def, but just to my feeling), I have to re-learn them. I mark them in Anki (I review on the bus while commuting), and in the evening I include them as if they were new words in my learning regimen, using Inversen lists.
As I know they're more resistent, I try to find some mnemonics. I often fail (because to me, all those words are very similar and I find that some mnemonics I've invented in the past could apply to other words) to find a good one, but even with bad ones, they stick long enough for me to remember them better. Also, I pay closer attention to examples of sentences than I do with other words. No magic technique, unfortunately. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Ojorolla Diglot Groupie France Joined 4963 days ago 90 posts - 130 votes Speaks: French*, English | Message 37 of 344 30 March 2012 at 7:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Googling it returns some stupid blogger's post, but anyway - it's called 사이시옷.
I don't like wikipedia either, but here are some links: 사이시옷 - 위키낱말사전 사잇소리 현상 - 위키백과, 우리 모두의 백과사전 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5533 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 38 of 344 30 March 2012 at 7:22pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I just went and checked to see which of the cards in my 한국어 deck were leeches and none of them were really surprising to me (though I was surprised to only find 4 listed given the size of that deck). Some words just don't seem to stick no matter what you try until one day they just do. Others work well with mnemonics, it just depends on the word. It's also worth noting that none of the words my copy of Anki shows as leech cards are words that I see or hear very often, which I'm sure makes a big difference.
FWIW: I don't allow Anki to suspend leeches (like it does by default) but I do let it flag them, so I can identify them. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4866 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 39 of 344 31 March 2012 at 12:54am | IP Logged | |||||
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Too bad there's no magical trick for leeches :D But the ones you mentioned sound quite effective. Once I see or hear a word in context a few times it's usually much easier to remember it. I guess I'll just input them again as if they're new, read some example sentence and see if I can eliminate some.
Regarding grammar... the last Korean course I took was heavily focussed on grammar. Because my university only offers 4 semesters of Korean (of which I took the last 3), the teacher said she wanted to teach us the most important things we'd need, like reported speech and passive voice. I'm very glad she did. I learned some other important structures from talking with more advanced students in Korea and at the moment I just look up new grammar when it shows up a lot in my reading. I found that quite a few more advanced grammar points are really variations on basic grammar - have to love the logical structure of Korean. Take this article as an example. Or 라면: -라고 (reported speech) + -면 (if) = -라면 (if someone tells you to...) So right now vocabulary is the biggest hurdle for me, but I also plan on revising grammar sometime soon (with the KLEAR textbooks) and getting a deeper understanding of the forms. Some familiarity is enough for passive knowledge, but not enough to make them active. For TOPIK grammar: did you see that the list also includes the grammar points used in the test? It's on the second sheet (or whatever that's called in excel). Ojorolla, thanks for the links! The second one looks interesting, but intimidating... So many unknown words for me. I think I'll try to read it in a few months ;) 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| The Real CZ Senior Member United States Joined 5647 days ago 1069 posts - 1495 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 40 of 344 31 March 2012 at 2:47am | IP Logged | |||||
Check this article -(이)라면 - From -(이)라(고) 하면: if it (be said to be) be..., if it were (the case) that.... More putative/hypothetical than -이면. This article is related-다면 - Conditional in -는다면, -ㄴ다면, -다면. In origin, this pattern is built on an indirect quotation in -는다[-고 하-]면, -ㄴ다[-고 하-]면, -다[-고 하-]면 and can be interpreted in two ways: 1) literally, as if one says/supposes that ... and 2) as a more hypothetical if than the usual conditional in -(으)면. For 라면 and 다면, you'll see that in most cases, it means 2) as a more hypothetical if than the usual conditional in -(으)면. For the longest time, I simply thought both structures were "if someone said _____", but they're for hypothetical statements. 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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