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Beginning Russian Advice?
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Serpent
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Message 25 of 70

10 April 2012 at 12:11am | IP Logged

fabriciocarraro wrote:

It might indeed be the case. Maybe Portuguese sounds are in general closer to Russian? But since the book is in English, I had to "transcript" the sounds from English to Portuguese, and apparently it worked out quite well.

They definitely are:)

I think another reason you were better than others was that you hadn't heard much wrong Russian, especially not spoken with Portuguese accent.
It's like in my case, I recently had to wait at uni and there was a Spanish class so I listened. I had only had native input before so I had trouble understanding their Russian accent at first!
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Марк
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Message 26 of 70

10 April 2012 at 11:20am | IP Logged

fabriciocarraro wrote:

Марк wrote:

Probably you pronounced them in a different way, at least with Portugese sounds, not
English and trained your pronunciation in other ways.
I heard russian with English sounds, it is practically incomprehensible. Worse than
фром май харт. And it is not only my impression.

It might indeed be the case. Maybe Portuguese sounds are in general closer to Russian?
But since the book is in English, I had to "transcript" the sounds from English to
Portuguese, and apparently it worked out quite well.

Марк wrote:

объём is [abjom]. Where is a short pause here?! [j] is a short pause? or
maybe just one more sound?
What's the difference between бъём in объём and бьём?

In the book they don't transliterate "ъ" as "j". Like in 1.2, объект is put as [ab-
yekt], and there's an explanation "the ъ simply separates the [ b ] sound from the [y]
sound". I don't know where that "j" came from.

Марк wrote:

Of course one might be understood with wrong grammar, wrong pronunciation
and sometimes even wrong words, but that'not the way textbooks should teach.

You're totally right about that, and that's why I said that the book has cons,
especially not having any audio with it. As far as grammar explanation is concerned, it
is the best I've found.

It is even written at the end of the chapter with capital letters that everything
written in it is not important for comprehension and is only needed for perfectionists.
Not only doesn’t the textbook explain the pronunciation but also it discourages
students to improve it or pay attention at all. My suggestion is to delete the first
two chapters from the textbook and it will become a good one.
In the book there is no "j" but there is such sound in the Russian language. That's how
it is written in the IPA. You call it a "y" sound. We are talking about transcriptions,
not transliterations. The transcription must represent Russian phonemes, not letters.
What they give is an inconsistent mixture of transliteration and transcription which is
awful. The [j] in объём is not separated from the by any pause, it just follows the
, optionally palatalizing it. Without the sign there wouldn't be any [j], or "y"
sound at all.
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fabriciocarraro
Hexaglot
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Speaks: Portuguese*, English^B2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French
Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese

Message 27 of 70

10 April 2012 at 1:51pm | IP Logged

Марк wrote:

Without the sign there wouldn't be any [j], or "y" sound at all.

What about the "ё"? Since it's a soft vowel, it has the "y" sound, no? I pronounce it as [yo], just like "e" is pronounced as [ye], "я" as [ya], etc.
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Марк
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Message 28 of 70

10 April 2012 at 2:33pm | IP Logged

fabriciocarraro wrote:

Марк wrote:

Without the sign there wouldn't be any [j], or "y"
sound at all.

What about the "ё"? Since it's a soft vowel, it has the "y" sound, no? I pronounce it as
[yo], just like "e" is pronounced as [ye], "я" as [ya], etc.

After the consonants? There are no any soft vowels in Russian, only soft consonants. It
is pronounced [jo] at the beginning of a word, after a vowel or after a hard or a soft
sign. After a consonant it indicates the softness of the previous consonant and the
sound [o]. The same is with я, ю, е. They undergo vowel reduction of course.
How long have you studied Russian?

Edited by Марк on 10 April 2012 at 2:33pm
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fabriciocarraro
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Speaks: Portuguese*, English^B2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French
Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese

Message 29 of 70

10 April 2012 at 2:38pm | IP Logged

About 2 years, give or take. Yet, never worrying about technical terms, which suits me quite well.
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Марк
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Message 30 of 70

10 April 2012 at 2:40pm | IP Logged

There are also great spelling rules. It appeared that the letters ы, я, ю, after к, г,
х, that's why pl. of язык is языки, not языкы. That's all a piece of news for me.
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Марк
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Message 31 of 70

10 April 2012 at 2:41pm | IP Logged

fabriciocarraro wrote:

About 2 years, give or take. Yet, never worrying about technical
terms, which suits me quite well.

But how do you pronounce бё or лё for example. Don't you know that ё looses [j] after
consonants?
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fabriciocarraro
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Winner TAC 2012
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russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 4715 days ago
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Speaks: Portuguese*, English^B2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French
Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese

Message 32 of 70

10 April 2012 at 2:45pm | IP Logged

Марк wrote:

fabriciocarraro wrote:

About 2 years, give or take. Yet, never worrying about technical
terms, which suits me quite well.

But how do you pronounce бё or лё for example. Don't you know that ё looses [j] after
consonants?

Let me give you an example, if I'm understanding this correctly. You're saying that they lose the [j] after a consonant, correct?
How would ледяной be pronounced, then? As [le-da-noj]?
The way I've heard Russians saying it, it was pronounced as something closer to [lji-di-noj].

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