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| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5056 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes  Speaks: Russian* | Message 33 of 70 10 April 2012 at 3:24pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Of course it is pronounced [l'id'nOj] "'" indicates palatalization (softness), I capitalized the stressed vowel. No [j], or "y" sound, as you call it. Edited by Марк on 10 April 2012 at 3:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| fabriciocarraro Hexaglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Brazil russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4715 days ago 989 posts - 1454 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishB2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese | Message 34 of 70 10 April 2012 at 3:35pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Good, then I'm doing it correctly. The way you said only works then if the syllable is stressed, otherwise it will be indeed softened. I already knew this "rule", but by using logic and knowing the pattern of how words are pronounced, and not by memorizing it and its terms. Edited by fabriciocarraro on 10 April 2012 at 3:36pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5056 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 35 of 70 10 April 2012 at 3:40pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
What do you mean? The consonant is always soft, but the vowel depends on the stress. There are no any [j]. If yyou need to indicate a [j], you have to insert a hard or a soft sign between the consonant and a vowel, like бьём or объём. then it will sound byom, without any pauses of course. бём is pronounced [b'om]. But you inserted some extra "j" in your transcription of ледяной after "l". Edited by Марк on 10 April 2012 at 3:42pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| blauw Tetraglot Groupie Belgium Joined 5372 days ago 46 posts - 111 votes Speaks: English, Flemish*, French, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 36 of 70 10 April 2012 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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The single most useful resource I have found so far in learning Russian has been "Roots of the Russian Language: an Elementary Guide to Wordbuilding" by George Z. Patrick.
When I started out with Russian, I was expecting grammar to be the hardest part. I soon discovered acquiring vocabulary was a lot more difficult. Because most Russian words bear no resemblance to their counterparts in Germanic or Romance languages, it can be very hard to get new words to stick in your memory, especially since you're learning them in a new alphabet (tricky for visual learners). This book is essentially a list of the most common affixes and roots in the Russian language. I bought it when I knew about 400 words in Russian, and found it to be invaluable. Suddenly, I could see links between words I already knew and the new words I wanted to learn, making the process of memorization much easier. An example: the Russian word for "airplane" is "самолёт," which is a lot easier to memorize when you know that it contains "сам" (by itself, unassisted) and "лета́ть" (to fly). I now know about 1500 words in Russian, and whenever I come across one that I find particularly difficult to retain, or one that has a root I've seen in several other words already, I go hunting for morphemes in this book. For instance, when I couldn't get the right order of the letters in "совреме́нный" (modern) to stick, it was very helpful to discover it's derived from "вре́мя" (time). Knowing the roots and prefixes can also be very useful when trying to make sense of certain parts of the grammar, e.g. aspect. The other day, someone on this forum was kind enough to link me to this blog entry explaining how (im)perfective verbs are formed: http://www.yearlyglot.com/2010/04/the-magical-aspects-of-rus sian-verb-construction/ Another thing that I want to recommend is to learn all the relevant parts of vocabulary from the start, especially where stress is concerned. I always learn the first and second person singular along with (semi-)regular verbs, because you can derive all other forms AND the stress pattern for the present tense from those two forms. With nouns, starting from the premise that stress falls either on the stem or on the case ending, I memorize stress patterns based on four rules (I got them from a first-year syllabus for Russian Translation Studies): 1) nouns ending in -о, -е, -ё, -а, -я : same as in the nominative 2) nouns ending in a syllable with a stressed fleeting vowel: stress falls on the case ending 3) masculine nouns where the last syllable is stressed (but doesn't contain a fleeting vowel): there is no fixed pattern, you'll have to look these up 4) all other nouns: stress falls on the stem Personally, I've found these rules to be enormously helpful. If a noun deviates from them, or with nouns covered by rule (3), I simply memorize the stress pattern as part of the Russian word. For instance, the back of my flashcard for "doctor" says "врач (u)" because the stress falls on the case ending ("uitgang" - I used the Dutch word so the abbreviation wouldn't look like a Cyrillic letter). My flashcard for "sunrise" says "восхо́д (s)" because the stress falls on the stem. My flashcard for "city" says "го́род (s/u)" because the stress falls on the stem in the singular forms, but on the case ending in the plural forms. Some nouns have completely irregular stress patterns, and those I just memorize in all their case forms. You can look up a noun's declension and stress pattern at this address: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Main_Page That's about all I've learned so far that I wish I'd known from the start. :-) I hope I explained everything clearly enough (and at least some of it was useful to you). Please don't hesitate to ask for further clarification if I didn't. Good luck with Russian! It's a beautiful, highly gratifying language, and definitely worth the time and effort. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5056 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 37 of 70 10 April 2012 at 3:50pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
грозА - грозУ водА - вОду гОловы - головАм трАвы - трАвам 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| blauw Tetraglot Groupie Belgium Joined 5372 days ago 46 posts - 111 votes Speaks: English, Flemish*, French, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 38 of 70 10 April 2012 at 3:53pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Yes, I specifically said that there are nouns that deviate from these rules, and that one should learn them separately. Every rule has exceptions, especially in Russian. If you have a better rule, covering the stress patterns of all nouns, nobody would be happier to see it than me. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| dbag Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5022 days ago 605 posts - 1046 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 39 of 70 11 April 2012 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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How is the Princeton course for learning Russian? Better than the penguin course? What
other really thorough courses are available? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| fabriciocarraro Hexaglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Brazil russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4715 days ago 989 posts - 1454 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishB2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese | Message 40 of 70 11 April 2012 at 3:27pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Many people like it, and it's indeed a nice course. I know some people that used it for a while and really liked it. As far as I'm concerned, I prefer the Penguin course, no doubt, especially because of the very well explained grammar part. The Princeton course is much better for listening comprehension and probably also for your pronunciation, if you try to shadow it, but the grammar part seemed weak. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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