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Beginning Russian Advice?

  Tags: Beginner | Russian
 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center Post Reply
70 messages over 9 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 7 ... 8 9 Next >>
Марк
Senior Member
Russian Federation
Joined 5056 days ago
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Speaks: Russian*

 
 Message 49 of 70
12 April 2012 at 1:53pm | IP Logged 
deleted by me.

Edited by Марк on 12 April 2012 at 1:56pm
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Serpent
Octoglot
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Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
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4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
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 Message 50 of 70
12 April 2012 at 2:27pm | IP Logged 
fabriciocarraro wrote:
I think it's the same with Portuguese (Serpent might help me on this one). My (Russian) wife still can't notice very well the difference between the words "avô" and "avó", the same to her Russian girlfriends living here in Brazil. Although it seems extremely clear to me, to them they sound just the same.
I think it's like the caught/cot distinction? Not sure, really. I hope this sort of thing can be assimilated... I normally just *know* where to write â, ê, ô.
BTW my Brazilian Portuguese-English dictionary says both ó and ô are pronounced like in English pole... #fail? (the example words are ópera and tônica)
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fabriciocarraro
Hexaglot
Winner TAC 2012
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Brazil
russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name
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Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishB2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French
Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese

 
 Message 51 of 70
12 April 2012 at 2:39pm | IP Logged 
Serpent wrote:
I think it's like the caught/cot distinction? Not sure, really. I hope this sort of thing can be assimilated... I normally just *know* where to write â, ê, ô.
BTW my Brazilian Portuguese-English dictionary says both ó and ô are pronounced like in English pole... #fail? (the example words are ópera and tônica)


Not quite. Words with "ô" are pronounced with the Russian "o", like in "дOбрый". The "ó" sound doesn't exist in Russian (I think), it's something like the English words "ball" or "Order".
But again, I don't know if you notice the difference. At least they say they can't hear it, just like I can't hear the difference between ш and щ.

Edited by fabriciocarraro on 12 April 2012 at 2:41pm
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fabriciocarraro
Hexaglot
Winner TAC 2012
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Brazil
russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 4715 days ago
989 posts - 1454 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishB2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French
Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese

 
 Message 52 of 70
12 April 2012 at 2:43pm | IP Logged 
Марк wrote:
You should start with the correct pronunciation. Pronounce the correct sound all the time and you will start hearing the difference. It's a good starting point, I think, to pronounce Ш as a devoiced English R.In order to start hearing the difference ask your wife to pronounce Portugese words with Ш.
I'll try to attach my audio, you can place your recording too (give a link to it).


I'll definitely try that, Mark! The idea of my wife speaking Portuguese words with Ш instead is great!
Today I'm at university all day, but tomorrow I'll try to upload a recording.
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yuriFromRoma
Groupie
Italy
Joined 4713 days ago
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Speaks: Italian*
Studies: English, Russian

 
 Message 53 of 70
12 April 2012 at 3:41pm | IP Logged 
Before reading this thread, I thought that my grasp of the Russian pronunciation was quite good for a beginner (I started Russian this year), but now I'm not so sure anymore! :-(

I think I can hear the difference and pronounce л/ль, н/нь and т/ть almost without a toil, but when it comes to test myself with ш/шь, с/сь, в/вь, д/дь or just ш/щ (*) and so on it becomes quite tricky just to "feel" any difference (especially when not at the end of the word)!

This lesson helped me a lot (especially with с/сь), but unfortunately it doesn't cover so many aspects! Does anyone know a very reliable resource (e.g. book, site) on pronunciation?



(*) about the last couple, when I hear щ it sounds almost like шч, yet I'm not 100% sure of it! Is that right?



Edited by yuriFromRoma on 12 April 2012 at 3:42pm
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Марк
Senior Member
Russian Federation
Joined 5056 days ago
2096 posts - 2972 votes 
Speaks: Russian*

 
 Message 54 of 70
12 April 2012 at 4:09pm | IP Logged 
yuriFromRoma wrote:


I think I can hear the difference and pronounce л/ль, н/нь and т/ть almost without a
toil, but when it comes to test myself with ш/шь, с/сь, в/вь, д/дь or just ш/щ (*) and
so on it becomes quite tricky just to "feel" any difference (especially when not at the
end of the word)!




(*) about the last couple, when I hear щ it sounds almost like шч, yet I'm not 100%
sure of it! Is that right?


Ш, шь are pronounced both as ш, While щ is a soft ш. Can you give a link where you
heard such a pronunciation of щ.
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yuriFromRoma
Groupie
Italy
Joined 4713 days ago
48 posts - 69 votes 
Speaks: Italian*
Studies: English, Russian

 
 Message 55 of 70
12 April 2012 at 6:21pm | IP Logged 
Марк wrote:

Ш, шь are pronounced both as ш, While щ is a soft ш. Can you give a link where you
heard such a pronunciation of щ.

Hi Марк, I can't give you any online reference, sorry. It is just written in the introduction of my Assimil course ("Il russo senza sforzo", 2002 ): there is a list of words given to get acquainted with some peculiarities of the Russian pronunciation, and a footnote related to "товарищ" explains that щ should be pronounced as I said before (it also adds that it should be pronounced pretty fast and without interrupting the emission).

By the way, thanks for the hint about Ш/шь... I wasn't able to spot any difference among them. Now I know why!

Edited by yuriFromRoma on 12 April 2012 at 6:27pm
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Cavesa
Triglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
Joined 5009 days ago
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Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1
Studies: Spanish, German, Italian

 
 Message 56 of 70
12 April 2012 at 11:47pm | IP Logged 
Nearly feeling bad about stepping in the discussion, I just have a question concerning
the Princeton course. I've read it is free (even legally free) to download but all the
links I found lead to the same site and the course wasn't there anymore. Would anyone
have a link which works, please?


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