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If the Listening - Reading works, then... | ||
Tags: Listening-Reading (L-R) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6910 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 25 of 39 26 October 2012 at 11:58pm | IP Logged | ||
Referring to me? :) Scandinavians (in general) don't have an insanely high level in English. We do learn English in school, we are exposed to thousands of hours of anglophone media (with subtitles), our languages are related to English etc. so we do have a leg up on those who don't have the same opportunities. While watching anime is probably better than nothing (as Volte said), it isn't comparable to the situation in Scandinavia, nor is it intense L-R. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 26 of 39 27 October 2012 at 12:39am | IP Logged | ||
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| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6440 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 27 of 39 27 October 2012 at 2:10am | IP Logged | ||
I don't study languages to impress people, and I tend to focus on input rather than output regardless of the language and method unless I have a strong reason not to. I've read novels in French and Dutch (predating discovering L-R), but I can't have a simple conversation in either. My results in this regard from L-R are more a reflection of my priorities as a language learner; I've never bothered with the active phase. I maintain some languages more than others. I also have a rather large number of hobbies, and can't claim to be a particularly diligent language student, for better or worse. In the Finnish challenge earlier this year, I did less than 30 hours of L-R (and less study than anyone else). I skipped the oral assessment, and did the written ones. We were ranked between A1 and A2. It's a method that picks up steam as you put more time into it; circumstances prevented me from doing so for this challenge, but even under far less than ideal conditions, it didn't do a lot worse than the other methods used. This was a timed result, with a non-Indo-European language, starting as a true beginner, and with a bad cold to boot. Earlier this year, I brushed off my Swedish with a few hours L-R (less than 6, I think - I didn't time it), and proceeded to read a couple of Olle Kjellin's books in a day each. Swedish is a language I've never really studied, but have poked at occasionally over the years, and at my previous best could read simple Wikipedia articles in it sometimes. I'd forgotten a lot of very basic stuff, which L-R helped bring back, and my improved German since last time I tried Swedish also certainly helped. Reading Olle Kjellin's books was somewhat hairy going, but I learned quite a lot from them, so something went right... Sprachprofi estimates my German reading is around a C1 level; this is largely due to on and off bursts of L-R, though I've taken a German course that brought me to an A1 level passively, done some Assimil lessons, and spend some time in German-speaking regions. She was also surprised, back when my speaking was more around a B1 level, that I could follow "Türkisch für Anfänger" fairly comfortably. Aside from my Polish and Russian L-R experiments, I've tended to use L-R more fluidly, as other people have written about doing at length. It's definitely less effective that way, but - like the person who introduced the method said - still rather good. For passive vocabulary recognition, the passive phase of L-R is unmatched. A few dozen hours into Russian, give or take, I almost always knew what each word in a sentence was contributing what to its meaning, and how it corresponded (or didn't) to the English translation. This is a step below recognizing the words passively out of context; I was also progressing there, but more slowly; active use is yet another step upward. Whether you try L-R or not is up to you. I've found it useful to bootstrap myself to a level where beginner's lessons feel like review rather than learning, and more casually, to improve languages where I already know a bit. You might find it useful as a replacement for slow TV even if you don't try to do it full-bore. 12 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ProfesorRich Diglot Newbie Spain profesorrich.com Joined 4525 days ago 10 posts - 11 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German | Message 28 of 39 27 October 2012 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | ||
Thanks very much for this very comprehensive and interesting breakdown, I think that answers all the questions I had. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6440 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 29 of 39 09 November 2012 at 5:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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For what it's worth, I've had reason to read some short texts in Polish today. While it wasn't all transparent, I understood most paragraphs before using external tools to help me out.
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| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 30 of 39 09 November 2012 at 8:46pm | IP Logged | ||
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Just wondering - how did you learn to read Polish? And as of now, would you be able to read a text aloud? (not necessarily with a perfect pronunciation)
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| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6440 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 31 of 39 10 November 2012 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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I learned to read Polish purely through L-R. I could attempt to read a text out loud, but it would sound rather bad: my intonation would be off, I'd mispronounce several phonemes, etc.
I try to avoid reading in it without corresponding audio unless there's something short I really really want to read, as I can't pronounce it well, and I know from German just how tedious trying to correct pronunciation of an extensively-read language is. I also find it hard to read a text out loud well, even in my L1 - possible, but hard. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 32 of 39 10 November 2012 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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But how much LR with Polish text have you done? :)
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