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Geoffw in TAC2015: RU, HE and Friends | ||
Tags: Football/Soccer | Yiddish | Hebrew | Dutch | Total Annihilation Challenge (TAC) | Russian | German | French | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4686 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 129 of 251 09 October 2013 at 4:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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È molto strano: ho studiato il francese a lungo circa 3-5 volte di più di l'italiano (credo), e tuttavia mi sembra che posso già capire programme di radio e di televisione in Italiano meglio di in francese. Beh. Non voglio dire che non mi piace capire Italiano, naturalmente! Solo penso che è strano, particolarmente quando posso leggere così bene in francese, ma non così bene in Italiano (ancora--sto megliorando rapidamente sempre). Edited by geoffw on 09 October 2013 at 4:51pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5530 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 130 of 251 09 October 2013 at 7:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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Sorry for the English response, but my Italian output has always been limited to a few hundred tourist words, despite a decent amount of exposure once upon a time.
Even though my French comprehension is far better than my Italian, I still find that some of my low-level decoding actually works better in Italian. In French, I can rely on a pretty good model of what French people are likely to say, and I can use that to decode many phrases from the "top" down. It's only very recently that I've had the ability to write down unknown words from a French TV broadcast. But in Italian, I can often decode sounds from the bottom up, and reliably perceive many more word boundaries. Not sure what causes this. Certainly, as an English speaker, I find the Italian phonetic model much simpler, I appreciate the regular spelling, and I find it easier to identify Latin roots. None of this is really a barrier to French, because I've got so much input that I've made it past the biggest challenges. But still, I can imagine that Italian might be a bit easier. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4686 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 131 of 251 09 October 2013 at 8:03pm | IP Logged | ||
I had no idea you had any experience with Italian in the first place! Obviously no problem. Yes, I agree that phonetics must play a large role in it. While certain French materials like "Horde du Contrevent" may zoom over my head, I can usually read easier stuff like Le Monde/Le Figaro with rather high comprehension, whereas as Corriere della Sera or La Repubblica are more of a slog. And yet when I switch over to TV5, unless there are captions (English or French, doesn't matter), I still only catch bits and pieces. But when there are (relatively accurate) French captions, all of a sudden I can understand what's being said. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4686 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 132 of 251 10 October 2013 at 1:15am | IP Logged | ||
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J'ai pensé récemment aussi, qu'il est pour moi déjà plus facile d'écrire ou de parler en italien qu'en français. C'est possible, peut-être, mais je crois maintenant que j'ai me trompé sur ce sujet. Peut-être j'ai seulment peur de m'exprime en français, parce que les gens sont plus difficile à satisfaire quand on parle français (par exemple, l'accent est souvent un sujet de critique), et même quand on écrive (presque tout les mots ont des lettres muets que changent et qu'il ne faut pas oublier à modifier).
En revanche, toujours quand je m'exprime en italien, il n'est que des félicitations, même pour seulment quelques mots tres simple! Ouf. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| espejismo Diglot Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5049 days ago 498 posts - 905 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: Spanish, Greek, Azerbaijani | Message 133 of 251 10 October 2013 at 4:36am | IP Logged | ||
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In my limited experience with French, the French were generally unimpressed with my attempts to speak their
language, but the Québécois were much more patient with and tolerant of it. The very best conversation partners were francophiles who weren't native speakers of French. I once met a Chilean lady who spoke excellent English, but upon hearing that I was learning French, she didn't let me use any other language for the next two hours of our conversation (even though my Spanish was much better at the time). :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5205 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 134 of 251 10 October 2013 at 11:15am | IP Logged | ||
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I agree with all the points in the last few posts. I picked up Italian listening comprehension very easily after having learnt some basics, and compared to French it was definitely a lot easier to pick out words - even before I had much vocabulary, I could mostly quite easily tell where the word boundaries were. French rhythm is based on syllable groups that often contain several words, as opposed to individual words, so sometimes you need to have a reasonable knowledge just to pick out the words.
And yes, generally speaking the Italians have a far more positive attitude towards people who are learning their language than the French do; I have encountered a few bad attitudes with them telling me their language is useless and I shouldn't learn it, but that doesn't happen often and they're generally quite encouraging. Sometimes a bit too much so, to the point of hugely exaggerating your ability like saying you're "fluent" because you can say a short and not quite correct sentence, but after French it's still a breath of fresh air. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4686 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 135 of 251 10 October 2013 at 11:35pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'd previously seen videos of exemplary oral production of English under exam conditions, graded with commentary according to CEFR, as well as graded commentary of written exemplars. I'd not found any such exemplary materials for other languages until now:
LINK You can see videos of people speaking at levels graded between A1 and C2 in English, Spanish, German, French and Italian. Not having perfect passive skills in all of these languages, I got to wondering: what CEFR level of passive understanding is generally needed to understand a qualifying oral production at the different CEFR levels? For example, if you understand at B2 competency, can you understand the people speaking here graded as C2, or do you need C1-level understanding, or is B1 enough? 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4686 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 136 of 251 15 October 2013 at 11:14pm | IP Logged | ||
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SUPER CHALLENGE UPDATE - Italian audio entries COMPLETE
So this is yet another update all about Italian audio. At long last, I have finished ALL of the audio portions of the Super Challenges for which I signed up (and completed well more than a similar amount of German listening). As expected, the reading has been the hard part to get done... BOOKS (Italian): 3. ... FILMS, ETC. (Italian): 46. Italy v. Denmark 47. Italy U21 v. Belgium U21 48. Italy v. Armenia 49-50. RAI Radio / TV BOOKS (French): 22. ... FILMS, ETC. (French): 50. COMPLETE BOOKS (Dutch): 42. ... FILMS, ETC. (Dutch): 50. COMPLETE I am not entered in any Super Challenge for German, but I also am still reporting for my log: BOOKS (German): 25. ... FILMS, ETC. (German): 75. ... 1 person has voted this message useful |
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