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What is good enough? | ||
Tags: CEFR Language Levels | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5058 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes  Speaks: Russian* | Message 9 of 79 22 December 2012 at 1:59pm | IP Logged | ||
I speak French badly but I could easily read scietific articles in French. That's why i was satisfied. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5534 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 10 of 79 22 December 2012 at 2:14pm | IP Logged | ||
Of course not. But I understood what Solfrid was talking about. And CEFRL levels are better than one of those Internet debates where somebody says, "Of course I'm fluent, I used to have a Spanish-speaking nanny!" and somebody else replies, "No you're not! You can't write as well as Borges, so how dare you call yourself fluent!" Better 6 imperfect levels than that accursed word "fluent". As for me: "Good enough" is not really a concept that applies to French for me, at least right now. Maybe someday I'll get distracted or bored and settle for what I have. But it's my wife's native tongue, and I think that even if I were to pass a DALF C2 exam, I'd keep on working on it. One or the other of us will always be speaking our second language, so why should we stop trying to improve? I may someday learn Spanish, and if I do, my goals would depend on where I was living, and how good I actually needed my Spanish to be. Edited by emk on 22 December 2012 at 8:37pm 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4667 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 11 of 79 22 December 2012 at 2:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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I don't know, I don't *need* French for anything, I could have remained entirely monoglot and lived a perfectly nice life, so there's no outside factor pushing me to attain a certain level. I just enjoy the language, and I imagine I'll keep studying it and trying to improve at it as long as that's the case. Edited by tastyonions on 22 December 2012 at 2:57pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6599 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 12 of 79 22 December 2012 at 5:54pm | IP Logged | ||
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My default goal is what this forum calls advanced fluency. However, I don't mind if the high accuracy comes from the avoidance of some grammar items, as long as it's not very obvious to natives.
Interestingly, this knowing-all-the-grammar thing used to be very important for me, but then I realized that some 'easy' languages are tough in this regard. From the Romance languages, I only care about knowing all the grammar in Portuguese and maybe Romanian. The aforementioned passive/active distinction is also important to me. Ideally I want to understand everything, or at least be at the level where everything *looks* clear - I might not actually understand some words but the reading can flow nicely without the 'sort of unfamiliar' words bothering me - for example because I've seen them already or I understand the roots and affixes in them. Now that I think about it, that's the difference between my Spanish and Italian. In the former I practically don't stumble over unfamiliar words. Oh and if I'm not actually going to read it, I don't care about being able to understand it - like with philosophy etc. In practical terms, my goal is to read, listen and improve. If improvement comes as a result of the first two, great. If not, I'm willing to use additional tools. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Fuenf_Katzen Diglot Senior Member United States notjustajd.wordpress Joined 4371 days ago 337 posts - 476 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Polish, Ukrainian, Afrikaans | Message 13 of 79 22 December 2012 at 6:12pm | IP Logged | ||
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Right now, I would assess myself as a B2 in German, using the guide that emk has posted. Although, if Solfrid Cristin assesses herself at a B1, I might need to rethink that classification! Right now, B2 is very much sufficient for my purposes. I don't live in Germany, don't need to use the language actively very much, and I am generally understood without much strain. But I can't use some of the more "academic" vocabulary I'm used to using in English. It's not so much that I actually "need" to be at a much higher level, but the language is very much part of my identity now, so I really hope to someday be at the C2 range.
For Polish, I would like to hit B1 in 2013. That would be enough to have basic conversations, and as most of my communications are through e-mail and online methods, I would be able to rely on dictionaries to help me with missing vocabulary. Ideally, I would like to be around C1 someday. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Majka Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic kofoholici.wordpress Joined 4659 days ago 307 posts - 755 votes Speaks: Czech*, German, English Studies: French Studies: Russian | Message 14 of 79 22 December 2012 at 6:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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For me, a practical active level of language for an average, occasional speaker is somewhere around B1/B2, with much higher passive level.
Not all my language are there - I have "working" languages at C-levels and "acceptable" languages at high B2 levels. I have "fun" languages in B - range and even "throw-away" languages in A2 range. And I have languages where almost all my knowledge is passive, albeit at high levels (B/C range). For me, the main problem is not as much reaching high level of a language. This takes time but is possible. But much more problematic is to maintain a high level in a language you don't use often - I can maintain a passive knowledge with relative ease, hold the "B-levels" without problem, but I simply don't have the time to maintain active C levels in languages I don't use either in private or in my job on regular basis. Instead, I have opted for letting these languages slide to the B levels and, if necessary, to bring them up when needed. Would I love to have all my languages in C-range? Of course. But if I learned something from experience, it is to be very pragmatic. I have finite amount of time at my disposal and even less free time for language learning. I can either limit the number of languages (ignoring all the "throw-away" ones I learn before holidays or some of the "fun" ones I learn just because) or limit how many hours I spend on one of them. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5567 days ago 938 posts - 1840 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 15 of 79 22 December 2012 at 6:32pm | IP Logged | ||
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Now I would love to be C2 in every language I study. But, to be honest I reckon I am at
A2 in French and German and been for about 2-3 years. I only have 30-45 minutes a day for language study and that is not going to change - nor do I speak with native French or German speakers enough to get beyond A2. Such a level may frustratingly only scratch the surface, but it is enough for my needs (which is largely as a tourist). Now, I wish I had better Latin - as I am a historian, it would be genuinely useful. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5768 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 16 of 79 22 December 2012 at 7:32pm | IP Logged | ||
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Same as my English, really. I never get enough. Of course I may find that at a given time I have other priorities than language learning.
Still, I want to feel comfortable with a language. I enjoy those times when I don't remember what language something I read or heard was in. I enjoy being talked to and simply answering and not having to monitor my speech because I know I speak that language reasonably well. That would mean near-native comprehension and very automatic, fluid speech ... But I guess I'll be fine with reaching a self-sustaining level. Around B1? After reaching that level, improvement will be unavoidable as long as I get enough exposure. Edited by Bao on 23 December 2012 at 4:11am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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