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We, who manage to focus on ONE language | ||
Tags: Number of Languages | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5007 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes  Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 9 of 142 21 August 2013 at 4:04am | IP Logged | ||
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That's not exactly true. While some skills still develop during such a time, others regress. It is needed to review some pieces from time to time because it an easily happen that an isolated mistake becomes fixed. And when you don't have opportunities to speak than just not practicing by alternatives (which we commonly use during the learning phases) can make you get rusty. It happened to me in past.
Yes, non natives of English have a significant disadvantage. As English is basically obligatory in today's world, one could get stuck for years without learning any language of choice. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Via Diva Diglot Senior Member Russian Federation last.fm/user/viadivaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4232 days ago 1109 posts - 1427 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German, Italian, French, Swedish, Esperanto, Czech, Greek | Message 10 of 142 21 August 2013 at 4:26am | IP Logged | ||
Precisely! All my friends (studying chemical engineering at university) laugh when I say that I want to learn German. They see that I have less problems than others during English lessons, but they still think that there is no point in other languages when one big English problem exist. One of my friends is learning German since school and she always says that there is no point of doing that in university (though she have to) and that she'd better off studying English. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5260 days ago 2241 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 11 of 142 21 August 2013 at 4:57am | IP Logged | ||
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As someone who chides adult beginners who want to learn multiple languages at the same time before they've learned their first one at least to an intermediate level, I understand where the op is coming from. Most people here would not advise these beginning language learners to learn multiple languages simultaneously, on their own. The odds of success would be and are extremely small for this subset. Of course there are exceptions but I've not seen any in the over three years I've been here on the forum be successful. While they're free to do whatever they want, just because you can do something doesn't necessarily mean that you should.
The multiple learners with at least one second language under their belt (or at intermediate level) are a different kettle of fish. It's not my place to criticize them for their choices. They know how to learn a language because they have already done so. The benefits that come from having learned at least one foreign language are huge and are something that raw beginners don't get to take advantage of because they don't yet know how to learn, what works for them and what doesn't. Having that first foreign language under your belt. so to speak, gives a huge advantage and discount in time and learning ability. I, too, wonder about the multiple simultaneous learners who never seem to move one of their languages to the "speaks" column. But it does happen and it is not my place to criticize them for their learning choices or styles. Some, if not most, of the people with a list of languages under "studies" as long as your arm don't really study all of those languages at the same time just because they're in their list. Most will prioritize one with the most time and another one will get much less time and energy. The other seven or eight languages probably don't get much attention at all. Serpent and tarvos are good examples of successful multiple simultaneous learners. Kujichagulia would've stopped learning Japanese altogether if he hadn't gotten reinvigorated by learning Portuguese at the same time- he had his reasons and the strategy has worked well for him. Some of the multiple simultaneous learners would love to be able to devote all their time to one language at a time but just can't for whatever reason. It may be burnout, wanderlust or just because they love learning. Perhaps it's the journey not the destination that matters to them. I'm the first to admit that there's no logic in it for me, but there doesn't have to be. If they enjoy what they're doing, are having fun and don't overly complain about their slower rate of progress- live and let live, but if you ever catch me with "Toki Pona" under my "studies" list, slap me ;)! 18 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4531 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 12 of 142 21 August 2013 at 8:22am | IP Logged | ||
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There are obviously serious people on this board who love languages, and systematically learning them to at least an intermediate level. There are others who list a whole lot of languages that they are 'studying' because it sounds cool, or because they they have no idea how much work they will need to do.
I could list a pretty cool language set next to my name: my mother was Lithuanian and I learnt some as a child; I studied French to an intermediate level at school; and did two years of Arabic at university. I don't list any of these on my profile as my competency is too low for me to take seriously. What is obvious to me now that I am getting deeper into German (and is obvious to anyone who has learnt a language outside of childhood) is that it's relatively easy to get to an intermediate level, but it takes seemingly forever to get to a proficient/fluent level. I estimate it's going to take me three years relatively intensive daily study to get to a level in German I am happy with (and no doubt years more to get really good). Splitting up that time with two or more languages would just make the process insanely slow. I think learning languages is at least as hard as learning a musical instrument. So what would you make of someone who says they have spent the last six months starting to learn piano, that they are bored now and want to start learning guitar? Or if they list that they are simultaneously learning guitar, harpsichord, oboe, cello, violin, and play rock, classical and jazz? Or that they play piano after learning it for a few hours a week for six months? I guess you might think they love music, but are unlikely to get to an serious level in any of these instruments until they commit to one, but perhaps that doesn't matter if they are having fun or if they want to explore at a relatively shallow level the music properties of lots of different instruments and styles. Edited by patrickwilken on 21 August 2013 at 8:32am 11 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Henkkles Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4251 days ago 544 posts - 1141 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: Russian | Message 13 of 142 21 August 2013 at 8:41am | IP Logged | ||
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Here's my explanation.
Russian has been my main focus for five months now. I'm pretty proud to say that I've made significant progress in it during these five months. However, I can only get in so much Russian in one day, but I would have time to study more. I could fill it with video games, but I'd rather dabble in different languages because it's fun and I get to learn about all sorts of cool things in them. I have a list of languages I want to learn, and I study all of them little by little here and there; I view this approach as "taking them out of the box." I'm taking the languages "out of the box" so that they're ready whenever I get the time to focus my attention on them, that I've already become sort of acquainted with the languages. This is not away from my Russian time and it's just a fun pastime among others. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 14 of 142 21 August 2013 at 9:37am | IP Logged | ||
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I should mention in accordance with Iguanamon that I usually focus on one or two
languages at a time; yes my profile says I am studying Breton and Icelandic, and yes I have spent time with both, but I am not really putting the hours into them right now (for reasons too long to go into here). I always focus on one, or two languages, particularly one I can use often. Because I was abroad in Russia for almost a month it was Russian - but since I have become satisfied with my current level of Russian, once university is over in 1,5 week I will return to Romanian and Hebrew (particularly Romanian, which is at a much higher level). The spread between languages is never equal and it is also not said that all of my languages are super-impressive C2's - they are patently NOT. The reason I can juggle is because a) I juggled five languages in high school, thus have experience and b) I know what works because I learned English to an excellent level when I was a child and I have a comparable experience (but with a moderately lower rate of success) in French. The languages I speak the best and have devoted much time to are all languages I have spoken often. I cannot count the hours of English, Russian or French I've used in the past years. It is not surprising that these (plus German) are my best colloquial spoken languages. 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Mooby Senior Member Scotland Joined 6103 days ago 707 posts - 1220 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish | Message 15 of 142 21 August 2013 at 10:09am | IP Logged | ||
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I like the quote in one of Khatzumoto's logs ["How many Languages"]:
“better to have one or a few sharp knives in your kitchen, than many blunt knives“. I qoute from his article: "Too many of us language learners are dabblers, dilettantes, hobbyists. Of course, it depends on one’s goals. But if we really want the maximum benefits of knowing a language, I think those max benefits only come with (native-level) fluency. If you want to be able to actually cut stuff, you need a sharp knife. You want to be able to use your languages to do (cut) ANYTHING. And fast. Understand everything from standard to regional dialects, read fast, speak fast and correctly, write fast and correctly. Otherwise you just have a collection of blunt metal; it looks good on paper, but it doesn’t do anything or it doesn’t do enough." I've been keeping this advice in the back of my mind for the past couple of months, because during the long intermediate stage of my L2, I'm particualrly prone to serious and repeated wanderlusting. I may not agree with the need to reach a native-like standard, as Khatzomoto says. I think C1 would be sharp enough for me. Edited by Mooby on 21 August 2013 at 2:14pm 12 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| casamata Senior Member Joined 4260 days ago 237 posts - 377 votes Studies: Portuguese | Message 16 of 142 21 August 2013 at 10:16am | IP Logged | ||
Do you have very high expectations for your English, is that why? Do you now like English? If so, then obviously it will be very hard to improve something that you don't like. The only way to improve understanding is by practicing a lot with language exchanges and input, no way really around it. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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