We, who manage to focus on ONE language (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

We, who manage to focus on ONE language
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Language Learning Forum : General discussion

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tarvos
Super Polyglot
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Message 137 of 142

26 August 2013 at 12:52pm | IP Logged

I'm not offended, I just don't think it's worth splitting hairs over how much words you
know when you can confidently speak anyway. If I don't know obscure word X then that
isn't a sign of my inability to speak Lojban, it just means I didn't come across a
certain context in which to use word X.

I could reach a C2 level in Russian, but when am I ever going to use those skills? Only
if I'm basically a permanent resident of Russia or consistently using the language in
all environments every day. Not the case. If I get to a very good conversational level
and can use it for all basic environmental needs including writing (like I can now) I'm
super happy. But if I mess up a verb aspect, or a declension after a preposition, or
whatever, well c'est la vie. Only people who pretend to be computers didn't just
understand that utterance (unless it was really ridiculous).

I have six or seven languages in which I can communicate pretty well. I like pretty
well. It's a nice level. In some languages I would like to communicate better, in
others I don't give a flying f**k, in others I can't communicate as well as I would
like to and in some languages my level is overkill. Whatever. I have what I've got, I
can make it better if I want to, and if I don't want to, then I don't. And if I have
particular projects I'll focus on those but since I have a goldfish attention span and
quickly drift off into my own world that can last anywhere from a minute to six months.
And I need the freedom to be that independent.
5 persons have voted this message useful

cacue23
Triglot
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Message 138 of 142

26 August 2013 at 2:05pm | IP Logged

My approach is to focus on one (at most two depending on the circumstances) at one time, with things from other languages picked up along the way. It allows me to drift off sometimes when I get bored, but not too far as to not be able to get back to normal. I'm sure when people say "focus on" something it doesn't mean they devote every possible moment to learning that one language alone.
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Serpent
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Message 139 of 142

26 August 2013 at 5:58pm | IP Logged

I've written some posts in my log explaining my attitude to language learning :)
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Gallo1801
Diglot
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Message 140 of 142

27 August 2013 at 8:20pm | IP Logged

After years of struggling to get very far, I've finally found something that works. I
actively only study one language at a time, and then have a secondary language that gets
a lot less time. Right now I've been studying French actively for about a year and
Croatian has been my 'auxilary' language that I do for fun when French gets old. I allow
myself to listen to music in any language and use that as a way to experience my future
TL's without having to spend effort on studying. I'm really trying to get French to a
high enough level so I can start Portuguese.
6 persons have voted this message useful

Cavesa
Triglot
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Czech Republic
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Speaks: Czech*, French^C2, English^C1
Studies: Spanish, German, Italian

Message 141 of 142

28 August 2013 at 12:58am | IP Logged

I leave a thread for a few days and it becomes madness :-D

So, with respect to emk's advice, I'll comment on other people and the things that caught my attention:

erenko wrote:

I focus on one book at a time. The language doesn't matter.
If it happens to be in English, let it be English. French? I don't mind French as long as the book is worth it. Russian? Why not? All I want is to become wiser, not to be an expert in a language. I'm not interested in small talk either.

You see how different people are? I love to read several books at once, no matter the languages. They are just lying around the appartment, each with a bookmark, and I pick what I feel like continuing with right at the moment. I usually have 2-4 books started at once but I got as high as seven which I think is my personal ceiling. And that was in those blessed golden ages when I used to have much more time for reading.

casamata wrote:

Edit: I respect your position on breadth vs depth since you travel a lot. Since I'm still in the States, I rarely encounter such multilingual populations of people so it doesn't matter to me much to have a basic or intermediate knowledge in a lot of languages. Heck, in my neck of the words I've never a lot of need for Spanish. But in the border states I have gotten to make use of it. If I were living in Europe, my stance would probably be different since I could actually get to another country in an hour and a half of driving!

It's nice to hear my theory on the basic euroamerican difference confirmed by someone across the ocean.
For people who travel a lot, learning several languages to B1 or so (or of course better during time) is actually a very rational choice. And it is as well a very rational professional choice for some jobs, as people mentioned the socio economical aspects of learning languages. I think most people in the tourist industry (at least in Europe) would do much better to know several well chosen languages to B1 than English to C2. Most times, they know English to B1/B2.

patrickwilken wrote:

What you really miss-out on when you are below C2 is nuance. For any word in a language there is a penumbra of meanings and associated words surrounding it. As I got better at writing in my native language I realized was that it wasn't the ability to use low frequency words that mattered so much, what was interesting was knowing the subtle connotations and associations that high frequency words would impart if used in a certain context.

I completely get the point that the cost of getting to C2 in a language is perhaps too high for most people - and there are lots of benefits associated with learning languages to B1-C1 level - but it's also wrong to think that going for B2/C1 to C2 is just about learning the approximate meanings of some low frequency words. It's as much, if not more, about learning the subtle meanings of high frequency words. There is a special pleasure when you get to that level both in consuming and in communicating in that language.

You are getting most nuance in passive skills at C1 and, of course, you get better. I think the largest difference is in the active ones. And without going to the country for some time, very few among us can reach the active C2 skills, in my opinion. It would require so many years that I would get to the next foreign language when I am in the middle age and the one after that just before retirement. And all that while having missed tons of opportunities. So, yes, the price is too high.

I think people in general don't realize the value of time other than the hour count. I hope I'll explain it well. It is quite known that sleep is beneficial for putting things in long term memory. And so is, even though differently, making spaces between learning, which is the base for SRS. I have experienced that having a few days (or even a week) long break between language studying sometimes brings unexpected result. I need to review a part of what I had learnt but I remember the other part and I remember it well. So I think less intensive studying (unless you overkill it of course) can lead to great success in the long run. So if your goal is not to get the desired result in L2 as possible but instead get the result in L2, L3 and L4 in a longer amount of time, than learning them all "at once" could actually prove to be the more efficient path. Now I hope my way of describing the idea makes some sense, preferably the one it was making in my head.
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prz_
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Message 142 of 142

01 September 2013 at 11:17pm | IP Logged

Cavesa wrote:

I leave a thread for a few days and it becomes madness :-D

I leave a forum for a few weeks and it becomes inferno.

I think I'm not able to create a well-organized statement, so forgive me this horrible mess below.

? wrote:

Those who really manages to focus on ONE language are the poor hapless monoglots (including some nobel prize winners) who never learn any other language than their own and never even discover what they have missed.

Haha, some kind of true. You never know until you try. I can find some similarities between learning languages and hitch-hiking. Somehow most of the people who pick up hitch-hikers are the ones who used to hitchhike in the past. The same's in this discussion ;-]

? wrote:

Telling me to concentrate on one language would be like telling me to concentrate on my right arm and then cut my legs off.

Definitely true - at least in my case. Plus, I simply can't focus on one thing - that's just me. So it's better to spend time doing several things rather than tire myself because it "should be more effective to learn one language at time".

JC_Identity wrote:

- I think that someone mentioned a valid point on schools that impose more than one language at a time. I agree, and I think this is unfortunate.

Unfortunate? Because they can acquire a language knowledge when they are young and still treat learning the language as a natural thing? Of course, many things depends on the teachers, but well, that's the topic for another discussion.

patrickwilken wrote:

So what would you make of someone who says they have spent the last six months starting to learn piano, that they are bored now and want to start learning guitar? Or if they list that they are simultaneously learning guitar, harpsichord, oboe, cello, violin, and play rock, classical and jazz? Or that they play piano after learning it for a few hours a week for six months?

nonneb wrote:

I know plenty of people who can play 5+ instruments well enough to get paid to perform at events (small, local events, but still, lots of musicians around my home).

Let me explain it this way: there are some artists, who can play a bit the piano, a bit the guitar, a bit the triangle and a bit the percussion. And, during the concert, they can make a great show and create an amazing atmosphere. Comparing to this, we have someone, who can play relatively good one of these instruments, but still, there are some people better than we [becase there are always people better than us and if we don't know them - sooner or later we will discover them. Or the world will discover them for us.
So, I prefer to make my "language show" and have fun rather than try to be the best in one language, in which I will never be the best, because it's impossible.

Cavesa wrote:

I think there is a huge difference between the American and European perspective here. Europe, with all the smaller countries and therefore more languages just one or two hours of flight away, is like a shop filled with candies and chocolatete.

smart girl :]

Cavesa wrote:

the natives are excited and friendly (ok, this depends on the country)

Maybe they aren't always excited, but definitely their approach to you is better. Probably forever I'll remember the scene from the train, when I tried to say some broken sentences in Ukrainian to native Ukrainians - their reaction was priceless. With "one language" approach it wouldn't be possible to experience this.

Iversen wrote:

I can get cheap flights to countries where at least a dozen languages are spoken altogether.

And I've thought I'll be the first who'd mention it :D I should also add migrations and looking for a job abroad - something very typical in Europe [especially this "poorer Europe".

Chung wrote:

For some reading knowledge is all that matters, for others getting by for travelling is another, still for others there's review.

Believe me, while hitch-hiking it's better to know basics in 10 languages then to know every word, but in only one language.

mike245 wrote:

Personally, I feel like a dummy when I'm in a foreign country and I can't communicate at all with the locals. I travel a lot to different places, so the best solution for me is to get to an intermediate level in a bunch of different languages. I'd rather be able to have a conversation with someone where I occasionally have to ask them what a word like sawdust or buckwheat flour or meander means, rather than just know one language really well but then feel lost in a place where no one speaks it.

DEFINITELY. You read my mind. No offence, but in such situations I feel like a dumb American :D Even if it's about knowledge of such languages as Albanian or Romanian.

casamata wrote:

Well, wouldn't you want to know what a beaver is? Just knowing that they saw an animal is VERY vague. Is a beaver like a beer? Is it dangerous? Innocuous? An endangered species? Or if somebody says that they ate a "cuccumber". Is it enough to know that it is a food? Or do you want to know if it is a vegetable, meat, or whatnot?

You can always ask what is it. And if you hear it on the radio or see on TV - you can check the word on the internet. Actually, what's the problem? [+ there will always be words that are unknown for you]

casamata wrote:

If I were living in Europe, my stance would probably be different since I could actually get to another country in an hour and a half of driving!

Hahaha, we won :D

JC_Identity wrote:

I think it is a bad sign if you need discipline to do something.

What if without discipline you wouldn't even get up from your bed? Tell it especially to people with depression. It's not always that easy equation. [known from personal experience]

Serpent wrote:

I think my main difference from most other people is just that I love about ten languages the way most learners love just one or two.

At least someone understands me here :D

I'd also like to add that sometimes you learn the language absolutely spontaneous - by listening to the music, watching the movies or simply having a contact with people. Should we also avoid this? It's definitely dispersing.

To be honest, I feel a "gentle pressure" and disbelief when it comes to learning several languages at the same time. In "real" life I had several people who have been questioning this aproach. But this is my life and I'll do whatever I want to. Well. Dear HTLAL-ers, let's wait 10 years and we'll see who's right and who's wrong. Then "the winners" will have loads of arguments .

Edited by prz_ on 02 September 2013 at 12:42pm

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