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Gary’s TAC 2014: Spanish, Italian, French | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5208 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes  Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 105 of 138 01 September 2014 at 11:26am | IP Logged | ||
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I had a bit of a break from languages last week (yes, a week is a very long break for me!), and I was at a music festival at the weekend so I didn't practise any languages, unless you want to count Glasgow dialect as there was plenty of that ;). Interestingly at the festival I heard a surprising amount of French, heard one group of Romans, and overheard various others including Portuguese, Japanese, and... Bulgarian I think? Strangely no Spanish though.
Getting to the festival required a seven-hour train journey, so I managed to do some reading (so I lied about the break... I suppose I meant a break from speaking!): finished Palomar (it's great, but a bit too deep and philosophical when you've had three hours of sleep, maybe one to re-read at some point) and started Il segreto del Bosco Vecchio which seems like another short but tough one. I also intended to go to French meetup last week but I ended up staying late at work so I didn't have time. Last night I was at a party with some Italians, many of whom I didn't know well, but they insisted in speaking English with me and I was quite happy to go along with it as I was tired and relaxed after the festival so not really in the mood for anything productive. Of course my ego-driven part did want to speak Italian just to prove that I could, but that ego-driven part often does more harm than good and stresses me out as much as it motivates me, so I just ignored it. But it reminded me of one of the big benefits of socialising with Italians in Italian, which I hate to say but is often the case: they actually listen. I find that even the ones who speak English well often clearly don't fully listen to what I'm saying, and for example will often ask a question that I already answered half a minute ago. Whereas when I speak Italian it's obvious that they're actually taking it in. Maybe they struggle to understand my accent in English but don't want to say so, or maybe there's some psychological thing where they assign more importance to something said in their own language. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| rdearman Senior Member United Kingdom rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5237 days ago 881 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin | Message 106 of 138 01 September 2014 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have to say when I was in Glasgow I had to have the fellow on reception write down what he was saying to me. He was asking for my credit card. And presumably we were both native English speakers.
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| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5208 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 107 of 138 01 September 2014 at 3:39pm | IP Logged | ||
"Yir credi' cair?"... Yeah, the Glasgow accent is infamous. I'm from central Scotland where the accent isn't quite as strong, it's a bit of a mix between west, east and north. Still, when I moved to Edinburgh to study, where most students are English, I had to tone down my accent as they had difficulty. And now I have a lot of international friends so I try to stay understandable. I reckon anyone not from Scotland would have had a lot of trouble with some of the proper Glaswegians that I was at the festival with, and when I get into a conversation with people like that I also start to use the accent and words. Some people say I have a very strong accent and others say they barely notice it, so to be honest I never know what to believe! I think it's relative, as the ones who say it's strong haven't met as many other Scots. But after all that talk on Italian accent improvement, maybe I'd benefit from some for English too, since some people do struggle and it can make me a bit useless in language exchanges... one Italian friend often jokes "I asked you how to say it in English, not Scottish!". On TV and radio you hear accents that are distinctly Scottish yet very clear and understandable. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Enrico Diglot Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 3746 days ago 162 posts - 207 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: Italian, Spanish, French | Message 108 of 138 02 September 2014 at 6:16am | IP Logged | ||
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Hello Garyb
I would like to learn Italian, Spanish and French. How do you personally think can I start to study them simultaneously from the beginning? Maybe not three but two, for instance Italian and French or Italain and Spanish? Can you say what materials would you choose for that purpose? Thank you. Edited by Enrico on 11 September 2014 at 2:43pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5208 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 109 of 138 02 September 2014 at 10:58am | IP Logged | ||
Hi Enrico, From my personal experience I can't recommend learning several languages simultaneously from the beginning, related or not. I tried it for a short time (Italian and Russian) but I just found that I mixed them up too much. My very unscientific theory is that my brain has a "new language area" which once I reach a decent level becomes a "French area" or "Spanish area" or whatever, but before it gets to that point, trying to force more than one language into it just leads to confusion. I only started Italian when I had been learning French for a couple of years and was at a decent conversational level (around B2), and the same for Spanish after a couple of years of Italian. Since they're similar languages, already knowing one makes it easier and quicker to learn another, especially the basics, so that's another reason to space them out rather than do them all at once. The three have a lot of concepts in common (verb tenses/moods, word order, adjective/article agreement by gender and number, etc.) and once you've got the hang of it in one it's simple to apply to another. I actually think it would have been more efficient for me to wait even longer and reach a higher level in each before starting the next, but I compromised because I was very keen to start using Italian and Spanish for socialising and travelling! And actually I'm glad I did because it made me realise how much more useful they are to me than French, causing me to re-evaluate my priorities. These are just my thoughts though. Some people do have success learning several languages at once like that. I'd also add (as I think Serpent mentioned in your thread) that getting passive exposure to other languages while studying one isn't going to do harm and could be useful. I heard a lot of Italian and Spanish in my social life long before I started actively learning them, and it did help. One piece of advice I'd give is to think about why you want to learn each one and let that guide your plan and priorities. There are some great posts in the thread about comfortable languages to learn about availability and quality of resources, helpfulness of native speakers, and other factors that you might not have considered. If I could go back, I'd probably have started with Spanish instead of French since where I live it's more useful and it's easier to find opportunities to practise, so I would have reached a higher level more quickly and the others would have been easier afterwards. Edited by garyb on 02 September 2014 at 11:10am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Enrico Diglot Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 3746 days ago 162 posts - 207 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: Italian, Spanish, French | Message 110 of 138 02 September 2014 at 3:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you for such a detailed answer. The current goal for these languages for me is to reach B1 or B2 level or level
where I will be able to travel, read books and watch movies and retain them at least at that level. I think about Spanish vs French now In Spanish I like more helpful people, ability to partially understand also Portuguese, prevalence in the world, how it sounds and you can read it as simply as Italian. In French I like their literature and their south coast with Monte Carlo, Saint-Tropez etc :-) and do not like less helpful people, how it sounds and it's inarticulate pronunciation. I have read the tread "comfortable languages to learn" I was in "passive wave" for two years here :-) P.S. I looked up into your profile and noticed that I can even copy your interests :-) Edited by Enrico on 02 September 2014 at 3:23pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5208 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 111 of 138 04 September 2014 at 10:40am | IP Logged | ||
Cool - I think B1-B2 in all three is a realistic goal and a useful level for travel and enjoying media. And at the B levels, a language tends to be solid enough in your head that you shouldn't mix it up too much with the others, although some interference is unavoidable when you start learning a new one. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5208 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 112 of 138 08 September 2014 at 11:26am | IP Logged | ||
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Again another week without much language work. Work was busy, I had a lot of sleep to catch up on after the festival, and I've been working on music a lot as I've got a few gigs coming up. I did watch some films though:
Spanish: I saw Volver (standard Almodóvar: strange but well-done drama about a family) and a few episodes of Aquí no hay quien viva. The latter is yet another great recommendation from Stelle, a light comedy series about the residents of an apartment building which is full of everyday speech. It's good, but while I can follow the story fine I don't exactly understand everything. Subtitles would be nice but I really can't complain since it's all available freely on Youtube. Watching some episodes of that mixed with some subtitled films should be good for my listening. Italian: An episode of Montalbano and the classic comedy Il ragazzo di campagna, which I recommend: it's about a country boy who goes to the city, quite easy and very funny. I need to find more films like that, but I find Italian comedy to be hit-or-miss. French: Ni pour ni contre, bien au contraire. There's still more than enough stuff on my to-watch list to keep up my intention of watching something in French once every week or two, and I'm currently getting through Klapisch's work. University has started back which means the weekly language exchange meetups are happening again. That should get me speaking more again, although I probably won't be able to make it for the next few weeks. In the past it's not always been useful to me, as the French spoken there (if any) tends to be at quite a low level and for Italian it's even harder, but now that I've got Spanish up my sleeve as well it should be more fruitful. I'll also try and make it to French meetup this week, since it's been over a month now since I last spoke it. I came across a few articles in Spanish, and realised that my listening is actually much better than my reading! Seems unusual although it makes sense considering I've practised listening a lot more so far and written language tends to use a wider vocabulary than spoken. I don't feel anywhere near ready to start attempting books yet, but I need to find some sort of online articles or blogs or something. I'm sure there's tons of interesting stuff out there but finding it is never easy. EDIT: Very timely, after I wrote my post I came across an article on Spanish on Fluent in 3 Months which was interesting and an easy read with some useful words and expressions on achieving goals and so on. I've also had a look at the author's blog. It seems like the usual clichéd lifestyle design escape-the-cubicle stuff but again it looks fairly easy to read and useful. Edited by garyb on 08 September 2014 at 12:42pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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