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Sarnek’s Log - TAC ’15 (Rätsel, Sleipnir) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4519 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes  Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 145 of 176 30 April 2015 at 5:11pm | IP Logged | |||||
Because it is. In Standard German <s> is voiced in a voiced context, devoiced in an unvoiced context and voiceless syllable-final (not sure if there is a difference for this sound between the last two). Austrian German doesn't have [z] at all, northern Germans often overdo it and have more [z]'s than Standard German, hypercorrection maybe. If you have misinterpreted my "northerners" with "Scandinavian", than we are talking about two different things of course ;) edit: and "northern" is everything above the Weißwurst equator of course :) Edited by daegga on 30 April 2015 at 5:17pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sarnek Diglot Senior Member Italy Joined 4213 days ago 308 posts - 414 votes Speaks: Italian*, English Studies: German, Swedish | Message 146 of 176 30 April 2015 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
Of course I mean northern German xD I often hear it as [s], but it could be as you say because it is in unvoiced contexts. I honestly didn't know that this "rule" applied to fricatives as well. Does that mean it applies to [f], too? Because I often hear fünvundzwanzig, and I was wondering whether it's a regional thing or not. Also, another difference that is never quite described in details is the hard "ch", which is pronounced not-so-hard-yet-not-so-soft-either in certain words like "auch". Yet the "rule" says that it should be hard (like in noch) after a hard vowel and soft after a soft vowel. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4519 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 147 of 176 30 April 2015 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
It doesn't apply to [f], but to [v]. But I'm sure you heard it correctly, these kind of assimilations can happen at least in colloquial speech. Wiktionary says: süddeutsch: [fʏnf], [fʏɱf], Plural: [ˈfʏnfn̩], [ˈfʏɱfn̩] norddeutsch: [fʏnf], [fʏɱf], Plural: [ˈfʏnvn̩], [ˈfʏɱvn̩] So it seems to be accepted in formal settings too. If you want a prescriptive answer, "Duden Aussprachewörterbuch" is the way to go, also for rules for composita (but the phonetic transcriptions are too broad, you shouldn't model your pronunciation on top of these transcriptions, you would sound like Hitler or so). For more accurate descriptions of an average descriptive Standard German as spoken in Germany, better go with Deutsches Aussprachewörterbuch. This is a very interesting read by the way, with descriptions about what happens in different registers of speech. The "ch" can be pronounced in 3 different ways (palatal, velar, uvular), some use only 2. Both velar and uvular are accepted pronunciations for /x/, so splitting that up doesn't make a difference in respect to the "rules". palatal: ich (frontal) velar: Buch (back) uvular: ach (open) For those using only 2 ways, I think you can hear all possible combinations, but in Standard German as defined in Germany, palatal is always amongst them. In Austria and I think also in Switzerland you could make a velar/uvular distinction. Or wrap them all together into either velar or uvular. Edited by daegga on 30 April 2015 at 6:37pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sarnek Diglot Senior Member Italy Joined 4213 days ago 308 posts - 414 votes Speaks: Italian*, English Studies: German, Swedish | Message 148 of 176 13 May 2015 at 6:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I had the Swedish written exam yesterday. I got the results today. 28/30!
It was actually quite a surprise, the test was really really hard, especially the listening comprehension part, but I think I managed to get some extra points with the written composition part. Anyhow, I'll have to focus on German now, I have the written exam in 10 days, and in the meanwhile I still have to study for the oral exam and a few others (I hate this time of the year). I've watched a Swedish film without subtitles: Känn ingen sorg. It was a really good film, too bad my comprehension dropped down drastically in a few occasions. I'll watch it again in a few months to see how much I'll have improved. I'm almost done with the book, too. I had picked up a quick pace before other stuff came up and made me stop. Oh, well. The hardest part will be to write an analysis about it though. I've made a few swedish friends over the internet. This should help me reach a certain degree of fluency before having to face a real conversation with a real person next year. As far as pronunciation is concerned I´ve noticed that it wasn't really any different from the one I have whilst reading: that's good, it means that my work on vowels is paying off (although I'm still picking up new details which I need to work on). I can talk quite fluently as well, with the occasional "uh... alltså..." from time to time. The problem is grammar. When I talk I make a few mistakes which I most of the time notice soon after I finish a sentence. Not syntax errors perhaps. I'd say my biggest problem is with articles, namely when to use the definite or the indefinite one, and therefore conjugate the adjective and so on... Also, this: http://swedia.ling.gu.se/. I love the internet. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5007 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 149 of 176 13 May 2015 at 8:02pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Congratulations!
And now that you reminded me, I really miss learning Swedish. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6907 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 150 of 176 14 May 2015 at 12:18am | IP Logged | |||||
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Congratulations to your results, Sarnek!
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sarnek Diglot Senior Member Italy Joined 4213 days ago 308 posts - 414 votes Speaks: Italian*, English Studies: German, Swedish | Message 151 of 176 14 May 2015 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thank you guys!
You should get back to it, Cavesa ;P I forgot to add that I've started watching dragonball z in German. I've watched 12 episodes so far. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sarnek Diglot Senior Member Italy Joined 4213 days ago 308 posts - 414 votes Speaks: Italian*, English Studies: German, Swedish | Message 152 of 176 17 May 2015 at 9:38am | IP Logged | |||||
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I've just finished the folkuniversitetet's test for both Swedish and German.
Here are the results: Swedish Kategori Självbedömning Testresultat Skriftlig färdighet B2 Grammatik och ordförråd B2 Läsförståelse B2 B2 Hörförståelse B2 B2 Muntlig produktion B2 Muntlig interaktion B1 German Category Self assessment Test result Writing B1 Grammar and vocabulary B1 Reading B2 B2 Listening B2 B2 Spoken Production B2 Spoken Interaction B1 Well... it's time to work for the C1 now :) Edited by Sarnek on 17 May 2015 at 9:40am 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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