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Zireael
Triglot
Senior Member
Poland
Joined 4641 days ago

518 posts - 636 votes 
Speaks: Polish*, EnglishB2, Spanish
Studies: German, Sign Language, Tok Pisin, Arabic (Yemeni), Old English

 
 Message 57 of 104
28 March 2014 at 9:32am | IP Logged 
Yeah, that's right, but really, don't trouble your pretty head with this, as my tutor used to say.
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napoleon
Tetraglot
Senior Member
India
Joined 5006 days ago

543 posts - 874 votes 
Speaks: Bengali*, English, Hindi, Urdu
Studies: French, Arabic (Written)

 
 Message 58 of 104
28 March 2014 at 5:41pm | IP Logged 
Finished Part 1 of Wighwick's book. (Units 10-16)
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Luso
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Portugal
Joined 6051 days ago

819 posts - 1812 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, French, EnglishC2, GermanB1, Italian, Spanish
Studies: Sanskrit, Arabic (classical)

 
 Message 59 of 104
29 March 2014 at 3:30am | IP Logged 
I got a question about cases, and it pointed to someone else's log, so I think it's best answered in this thread, as everyone concerned seems to come here.

I'll try to be both concise and abstract (just the rules). Bear with me for starting at the beginning.

So, in succession:

1. While pronouncing, speakers of Arabic stop at the sukuun (masculine) or "a" sound (feminine).

2.1. Definite words begin with the article "al" and do not have nunation, whereas indefinite ones have nunation, but not the article.

2.2. Possessives are definite, but without article.

3. There are three cases in Arabic: nominative, accusative and genitive.

3.1. Nominative usually refers to the subject, accusative to the direct object and genitive to the indirect object.

3.2. Nominative is signalled by damma(s), accusative by fatha(s) and genitive by kasra(s).

3.3. There are a few other rules: a preposition implies that the following word must have kasra(s) at the end, the verb laysa implies fatha(s), etc.

3.4. These rules apply to both definite and indefinite words.

4. The use of definite or indefinite words depends, not only on grammar rules, but largely on what you want to say.

4.1. Toggling this, you can say things like "a big house", "the house is big" or "the big house".
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nancydowns
Senior Member
United States
Joined 3912 days ago

184 posts - 288 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written)

 
 Message 60 of 104
29 March 2014 at 3:56am | IP Logged 
Thank you so much, Luso! I am sorry that I got this all stirred up! :-) Except that I am glad because I have learned a lot! I am wondering if you have any
suggestions for sources for learning MSA? I have a book "Mastering Arabic" by Wightwick and Gaafar. It seems like a good book, but they seriously gloss over
grammar points, and it is not fully vocalized. So when I posted a picture of my handwriting, I was missing some vowels, namely the case markers for the
nouns. That wasn't covered in my book, so I am glad that Napoleon pointed it out. I went and searched online and found some information about it then.

If you wouldn't mind me giving a specific example, could you tell me if I am correct?

Here is Jihan's key. This has key (miftah) that would be in the nominative state, and it is definite because it is Jihan's (even though it doesn't have the
definite article), so it would only take a single damma. And Jihan is in the genetive, so her name would take a double kasra at the end. Is that right?

And one other question on pronunciation. I know that in dialects, endings are dropped, but for strictly MSA, when you have a vowel sound like car (sayyara),
and you add a damma, do you pronounce both vowels, sayyarau?

Thanks so much for your help! I am so glad for you taking the time to help us! :-)

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napoleon
Tetraglot
Senior Member
India
Joined 5006 days ago

543 posts - 874 votes 
Speaks: Bengali*, English, Hindi, Urdu
Studies: French, Arabic (Written)

 
 Message 61 of 104
29 March 2014 at 6:08am | IP Logged 
I think you would say sayyaratu or sayyaratun depending upon its definiteness or lack thereof.
The ta marbuta has the sound of a ha if it has a sukun (there are no vowel signs above it). If it has a fatha, or a dammah, or a kasra, it takes the sound of a ta along with the sound of the respective vowel sign(ta/tan, tu/tun, ti/tin).

Edited by napoleon on 29 March 2014 at 7:25am

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nancydowns
Senior Member
United States
Joined 3912 days ago

184 posts - 288 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written)

 
 Message 62 of 104
29 March 2014 at 2:05pm | IP Logged 
Thanks, Napoleon! :-)
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napoleon
Tetraglot
Senior Member
India
Joined 5006 days ago

543 posts - 874 votes 
Speaks: Bengali*, English, Hindi, Urdu
Studies: French, Arabic (Written)

 
 Message 63 of 104
29 March 2014 at 3:22pm | IP Logged 
nancydowns wrote:
Thanks, Napoleon! :-)

You're welcome. :-)

Checked my answers for lesson 5 and did the exercises for lesson 6 from the Madinah book.

Edited by napoleon on 29 March 2014 at 5:33pm

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napoleon
Tetraglot
Senior Member
India
Joined 5006 days ago

543 posts - 874 votes 
Speaks: Bengali*, English, Hindi, Urdu
Studies: French, Arabic (Written)

 
 Message 64 of 104
29 March 2014 at 9:14pm | IP Logged 
Finished the exercises for lesson 7 from the Madinah book.


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