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Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish
| Message 25 of 63 06 May 2014 at 10:18pm | IP Logged |
ScottScheule wrote:
Please. If you find that "very disturbing," Serpent, then the Internet's not the place for you. Nothing sidetracks a thread like a moan. |
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You're sidetracking it much more by telling me whether the Internet is for me or not.
It's just upsetting to see this sort of descriptions on HTLAL. Surely it's possible to say what you like or dislike about your languages in a more civil way.
3 persons have voted this message useful
| Stolan Senior Member United States Joined 4030 days ago 274 posts - 368 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Thai, Lowland Scots Studies: Arabic (classical), Cantonese
| Message 26 of 63 06 May 2014 at 10:18pm | IP Logged |
Henkkles wrote:
In principle, languages .... |
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The average person with no knowledge of linguistics would probably believe all languages were equally complex in
the past but some devolve into more simplicity as time goes on, but alas, that is not the case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_complexity
Most would assume Tolomako was a pidginized variety, but the case may be that it is closer to the ancestral
language and Sakao actually innovated numerous complexities.
PIE probably had no prepositions, no tense-just aspect, an animacy distinction-not random gender, and regulary
morphology. But some descendants such as Ancient Greek nearly scraped the limit of just how complicated a
language could become.
Not just irregularity, but semantic distinctions and phonology too, many Caucasian languages with huge
inventories were reconstructed as having smaller phonological inventories in the past.
Serpent wrote:
It's just upsetting to see this sort of descriptions on HTLAL. Surely it's
possible to say what you like or dislike about your languages in a more civil way. |
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How would you describe what I showed you on those links? Are those languages not as I described them as being?
Edited by Stolan on 06 May 2014 at 10:23pm
2 persons have voted this message useful
| Henkkles Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4251 days ago 544 posts - 1141 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: Russian
| Message 27 of 63 06 May 2014 at 10:25pm | IP Logged |
Stolan wrote:
Henkkles wrote:
In principle, languages .... |
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The average person with no knowledge of linguistics would probably believe all languages were equally complex in
the past but some devolve into more simplicity as time goes on, but alas, that is not the case. |
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An average person with no knowledge would probably have no clue that languages evolve at all, let alone that there are many typological classifications for different sorts of languages :p
3 persons have voted this message useful
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish
| Message 28 of 63 06 May 2014 at 10:27pm | IP Logged |
Stolan wrote:
2 Serpent
Have you studied a Southeast Asian language?
I do not take ones such as Lahu or Akha (ergative particles!) into account. |
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I assume you don't count Indonesian either.
I'll take all morphological irregularity in the world as long as I don't have to think of the tone of every single word or even syllable I use :P
1 person has voted this message useful
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish
| Message 29 of 63 06 May 2014 at 10:30pm | IP Logged |
Henkkles wrote:
Stolan wrote:
Henkkles wrote:
In principle, languages .... |
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The average person with no knowledge of linguistics would probably believe all languages were equally complex in
the past but some devolve into more simplicity as time goes on, but alas, that is not the case. |
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An average person with no knowledge would probably have no clue that languages evolve at all, let alone that there are many typological classifications for different sorts of languages :p |
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An average person with no knowledge of linguistics thinks their native language is one of the hardest in the world, no matter which one it is.
7 persons have voted this message useful
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5226 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French
| Message 30 of 63 06 May 2014 at 10:33pm | IP Logged |
Serpent wrote:
You're sidetracking it much more by telling me whether the Internet is for me or not. |
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Just trying to protect you. There might be some places of the Internet that are sufficently anodyne for you, but you should watch out for discussion threads that ask people to express their opinions on certain languages--in such threads, people often express their opinions on certain languages.
4 persons have voted this message useful
| Stolan Senior Member United States Joined 4030 days ago 274 posts - 368 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Thai, Lowland Scots Studies: Arabic (classical), Cantonese
| Message 31 of 63 06 May 2014 at 10:33pm | IP Logged |
There's Cambodian, it has no tone, otherwise, it's pretty much the same as all the other languages in that area.
I admit, I am a bit bitter due to linguistic ignorance in common folks, they assume their language is oh so beautiful
and more expressive for having more difficulty, I'm sure you've run into numerous Russian saying so,
luckily they haven't laid a finger on those Southeast Asian language which are really text speak in action.
"I no take candle no light dark dark very very" "You give me lighter free yes no ah?" "I play game 3 minute ps2"
"I in shop buy ticket go shop tommorow, you go ah?"
are literal translation of everyday sentences. It's just amazing they evolved into stuff like this.
Edited by Stolan on 06 May 2014 at 10:37pm
2 persons have voted this message useful
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish
| Message 32 of 63 06 May 2014 at 10:38pm | IP Logged |
Henkkles wrote:
In principle, languages go on a sine-wave between periods of high and low redundancy, regularity and irregularity, neat and tidy paradigms and so on and so forth. It's a never ending loop between "this stuff makes sense but it's too bothersome to say" and "we've got way too many paradigms let's merge a few". Icelandic for example is entering a stage of regularization more or less, my teacher of Icelandic told us that newscasters have to have the paradigms for the irregular nouns "brother", "sister" etc. with a magnet on their fridge doors so that they remember how they're conjugated :D
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That's happening with the Russian declension of numerals too. It was hilarious when we had university classes of morphology and Russian during the same term, and at the Russian class we were tested on declining large numbers correctly, whereas the morphology prof kept on saying how this feature is dying and within 100 years it will be gone completely.
1 person has voted this message useful
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