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Language Learning Orthodoxy You Ignore | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5432 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes  Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 33 of 116 01 December 2014 at 1:56pm | IP Logged | ||
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If I had had my druthers, I would have called this thread "My Language Learning Gripe List". I really
don't see much orthodoxy, if by that we mean a set of beliefs that is held by the majority to be universally true. Nobody says that flashcards or Anki are the best tools for memorizing vocabulary for everybody. Some people believe in speaking from day 1, whatever that means, and other people want to wait until they are ready. Where's the problem? What we do see is different practices, including the vast world of language teaching in classrooms. Sometimes I think we at HTLAL ignore that hundreds of millions of people are learning languages in classes with real teachers. How well that works is another story. There is probably where you will find anything resembling language learning / teaching orthodoxy. A lot of people here complain about this but I like to think that classroom teaching is not all bad. The main point is that we all have ideas that inform our learning strategies and practices. For example, some people think that you need to know at least x thousands of words before you can begin speaking. Other people, like myself, believe that a few hundred can get you going very well. These positions determine different learning practices. We may argue about these ideas, but they are hardly orthodoxies. What really counts is the end results. How well can you speak the language? 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| DaraghM Diglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6153 days ago 1947 posts - 2923 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Hungarian | Message 34 of 116 01 December 2014 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | ||
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As I read this thread, I’m bombarded by ads for Rosetta Stone. I’d say the most common orthodoxy we don’t believe is
- Rosetta Stone is the best way to learn a language. My own personal disbeliefs around language learning, some of which are mentioned before, are, - You can reach B2 from scratch in three months. - Massive input leads to output. (I wish this were true, but it hasn’t worked for me) - You can converse in a language, without practising conversation skills. ( I think Prof. Arguelles has reversed his position on this) - Grammar familiarity can be avoided. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6584 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 35 of 116 01 December 2014 at 6:08pm | IP Logged | ||
Why would you want to converse without practicing conversation skills? I do believe you can practice conversation skills without conversing, though. You might not get all the way there, but doing the following: * Practicing listening conversation * Practicing output via writing and self-speak * Practicing pronunciation/fluidity via phonetics/shadowing/whatever. … will likely mean you have a much smoother experience in your first conversation than if you have done none of them. You might not be flawless the first time, but you can surely get a pretty descent ability without having to spend a bunch of time studdering through conversations. My first conversations in both Mandarin and Portuguese were, if not without problems, then at least quite functional and not annoying for my interlocutor. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5168 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 36 of 116 01 December 2014 at 8:27pm | IP Logged | ||
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I can't think of an orthodoxy that hasn't been mentioned yet, but overall I'm relieved that several people won't do SRS, or believe in extensive reading as a solution, or in speak from day 1. It is a pleasure to notice that the thread has been carried on with lots of contradictory opinions and in a reasonable way.
Only @iguanamon: there are some of premises of yours that assume you'll be learning a close language, with almost transparent vocabulary, which is the case. At most other languages you can't have such luxuries (like using only monolingual dictionaries, or 'reading from day 1' or non-stop listening). 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| glavkos Triglot Newbie Greece glavkos.blogspot.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5240 days ago 13 posts - 15 votes Speaks: Greek*, English, Esperanto Studies: Russian | Message 37 of 116 02 December 2014 at 8:10am | IP Logged | ||
If you the person who is afraid of immigrants then you might say : ξενόφοβος, but it is not frequent ;) Edited by glavkos on 02 December 2014 at 8:11am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| cpnlsn88 Triglot Groupie United Kingdom Joined 5039 days ago 63 posts - 112 votes Speaks: English*, German, French Studies: Spanish, Esperanto, Latin | Message 38 of 116 02 December 2014 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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The orthodoxy I ignore is 'don't look up every word'. This might be a bad habit of
mine, but it arises with German where two factors are at play (1) I found genuine difficulty understanding things with my vocab as it was and (2) I love the way German forms words and so am motivated to find more! But it's an orthodoxy that I would generally subscribe to but do ignore in the case of German. I wouldn't advise any other language learner to do this as some kind of model though. There's a bit of debate over SRS rather than Orthodoxy but it's a situation where both sides form their own orthodoxy to some extent. I don't subscribe to the idea of doing excessive SRS - most of mine is done when otherwise I'd be staring in out of the window on public transport and breaks I might take from work and rarely amounts to more than 20 minutes in a day (on anki - memrise is a slightly different story and is much more addictive). I didn't do SRS for many years (so 'you don't need to do SRS' was an orthodoxy for me) but now think it has some value, dependent on the person's needs and how fidgety they are on buses. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lemberg1963 Bilingual Diglot Groupie United States zamishka.blogspot.coRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4241 days ago 41 posts - 82 votes Speaks: English*, Ukrainian* Studies: French, German, Spanish, Polish | Message 39 of 116 02 December 2014 at 3:51pm | IP Logged | ||
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For me the big one is that I use and like Rosetta Stone. It fits perfectly into my Anki
workflow. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6584 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 40 of 116 02 December 2014 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | ||
And here I thought that "Rosetta Stone is the worst*" was the one orthodoxy we could all agree on. --- * I literally can't even. 5 persons have voted this message useful |
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