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Does ’Full Recall’ work? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6701 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 9 of 22 25 September 2006 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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Sometimes yes, but if I have seen the word long time ago I may have forgotten when and where, but just remember that I have seen it (and hopefully I even remember its meaning). And yes, it is a formalized approach to dictionary browsing. But without the systematic writing down of words the effect would be minimal, and if I tried the same thing with only unknown words it would be both frustating and boring and therefore a waste of time. I did in fact use long lists of unknown words long ago when I started out learning languages, but the effect didn't justify the time I spent.
The Leitner system is different because as far as I know it works with unknown words that are repeated according to some mathematical formula until you have learnt them. But repeating patterns of words can also be learnt through reading ordinary books (without the mathemathical overhead) which I find much more pleasant. Edited by Iversen on 25 September 2006 at 2:32pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Farley Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 7090 days ago 681 posts - 739 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, GermanB1, French Studies: Spanish | Message 10 of 22 25 September 2006 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | ||
The original Leitner system was based on the staged repetition of known words without the mathematical formula. The repetition was based on a series of 5 boxes. The boxes where not ends in themselves but just a device to remind you of a word a couple of times until it sinks into memory. It is effective, but time consuming, and to that end not that fun. The principle behind the “Leitner box” and your “organized dictionary browsing” seem about the same, except your method sounds more interesting. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6701 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 11 of 22 25 September 2006 at 2:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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At least my method is easier: it just demands a dictionary, two pencils and a sheet of paper. The funny thing is that no one from I started in first grade in elementary school through the gymnasium to the university ever suggested to me that I should give up learning unknown words and instead concentrate on half forgotten words instead, - that's why I am pounding out the message through this forum! I personally think that writing down the words once or twice can be as effective as reading them many times, plus you can use your self made word lists afterwards just as Leitner boxes if you want to.
As for the mathematical side of Leitner I may have read about it in a discussion about the SuperMemory system, and it may have been an addition to the original Leitner system by people working with that system. Sorry about the confusion I may have caused. Edited by Iversen on 26 September 2006 at 6:28am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6673 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 12 of 22 25 September 2006 at 4:08pm | IP Logged | ||
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Iversen, I´d like to implement your method.
Let me see if I understand you.
For example, the method can be: 1-Buy a dictionary in your target language :-) 2-Write down "known words" in black (without the meaning in your native language because you know the meaning yet). 3-Write down "semiknown words" in blue (with the meaning in your native language and some sentence if you have). 4-Write down ONLY a few interesting "unknown word" (with the meaning...) Is that right? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Farley Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 7090 days ago 681 posts - 739 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, GermanB1, French Studies: Spanish | Message 13 of 22 25 September 2006 at 4:38pm | IP Logged | ||
In fact it was both SuperMemo and Full Recall added an algorithm to make the staged interval more efficient, though personally I like your system better. I’ll have to give it a try. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6701 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 14 of 22 26 September 2006 at 3:19am | IP Logged | ||
It is a good way of describing the system. However in your description of the system you need a third (red) pencil to note down the unknown words, - I personally just put a dot at the semiknown words, and I don't write the translation. If I don't remember the meaning of words with a dot when I run through the list later (at counting time) then they should have been treated as unknown and I mark them as such. On detail more: you should use a dictionary with a fair amount of entries, at the very least 15.000, but better 25.000 or 50.000 (or even 70.000). Such a book can still be handled without problems. Larger dictionaries with more words may be relevant for counting words in your 'best' languages, but a 20 centimeter thick book is not practical to handle. And the printed text should be easy to read, with lexical entries in bold and the rest in ordinary types. Edited by Iversen on 26 September 2006 at 4:31am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6673 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 15 of 22 26 September 2006 at 1:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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Ok, I´ve a 65.000 entries english-Spanish dictionary.
The method can be: 1-Write known words in black (without the meaning) 2-Write semiknown words in black and mark them with a left red dot ( without the meaning) 3-Write only few interesting unknown words (with the meaning) and mark them with a left red dot too. Later, If I don't remember the meaning of words with a left red dot when I run through the list, then they should be treated as unknown words and I should mark them as such (red left dot and the meaning at the right). Do you think it´s better? Anything else to add? Edited by slucido on 26 September 2006 at 1:37pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6701 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 16 of 22 27 September 2006 at 4:38am | IP Logged | ||
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That's a perfect short description, except that I write the totally unknown words and their translations all in red, because I then easily can look through the lists later and check that I now know all the red or dotted words.
As a supplement: I personally count the 'black' words afterwards and calculate my total vocabulary (within the dictionary I used) by dividing by the number of pages counted and multiplying by the total number of pages in the dictionary. However this is not directly part of the learning process, but it keeps me happy to see the numbers for each language crawl upwards. I hope that others can benefit from the method too. Edited by Iversen on 27 September 2006 at 5:35am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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