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Assimil Learning methods | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| stegillous Bilingual Pentaglot Newbie France Joined 6549 days ago 9 posts - 10 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, Taiwanese*, Japanese, French, English Studies: German | Message 25 of 96 03 February 2007 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
As for Assimil, I've heard lots of complaints about this point. Personally, I enjoy finding the rules by myself, of course with the aides of its explanations. By this way, I draw actively my own picture and won't forget it forever. On contrast, I learned little from structured materials because I was just fed with them. The only condition that I use them is to look up the points which I couldn't understand. As for FSI, I use it to enhance my competence of oral communication. Edited by stegillous on 03 February 2007 at 4:16pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Roger Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6596 days ago 159 posts - 161 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, Indonesian | Message 26 of 96 04 February 2007 at 3:06pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I think the assimil translations are very dodgy for a learner, but acceptable for someone who can speak the language. And yes, when assimil expect you to translate in the active phase how can you possibly get the taget language translation with the way it is written in english?
If the assimil people made the translations better I think assimil would be one of the best language tools around. Translating the TL text into english all over again but better, might be a good solution, one which im going to try. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6913 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 27 of 96 04 February 2007 at 4:12pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Does anyone have any examples of bad (word-for-word?) translations? I've only seen the French course in Russian (i.e. teaching French from Russian) and for lesson 1 it was pretty much word-for-word translations, but in my opinion they're OK (bear in mind that I'm only a beginner in both languages - native speakers may of course have a different opinion). Perhaps they "work" because of the basic level/sentence structure, and get worse as the difficulty is increased and more "critical" grammar is added.
We have some noteable examples of people who have learned a lot of languages with this method (Fanatic and Ardaschir), and hopefully some of them could give us their point of view. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Roger Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6596 days ago 159 posts - 161 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, Indonesian | Message 28 of 96 04 February 2007 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Well here is one example from my italian 'with ease' book, it seems pretty bad to me.
'lo vede anche lei che c'è un traffico pazzesco, è l'ora di punta'. - assimil translation - can't you see it's rush hour. This is one of many I have come across. As I say, it may be acceptable to someone who already knows the language, but to a learner that will confuse the hell out of them (it did me) As for the start of the italian one, it is also near word for word translations and then makes no sense then onwards. Edited by Roger on 04 February 2007 at 4:25pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7209 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 29 of 96 04 February 2007 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Both Ardaschir and Fantatic used older versions of Assimil.
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| Kubelek Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland chomikuj.pl/Kuba_wal Joined 6856 days ago 415 posts - 528 votes Speaks: Polish*, EnglishC2, French, Spanish Studies: German | Message 30 of 96 04 February 2007 at 6:08pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I use French with ease localized for Poland, and translations are pretty bad. Sometimes I get the French sentence only thanks to cognates with English, and the Polish translation is just misleading. Active wave is pretty hard. I sometimes feel I got sth right only because I still remembered it verbatim after hearing it too many times.
I guess you need to accept the fact and try to learn whatever you manage with this course. The passive wave is working well enough. Try to activate some other way, if the translations are putting you off. I also own a Spanish with ease book (in Polish). It has a lot of parentheses with the literal translation of expressions used in Spanish, looks better. There's a larger reference section at the end too (beacuse it deals with major differences between dialects) Edited by Kubelek on 04 February 2007 at 6:09pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7209 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 31 of 96 04 February 2007 at 9:05pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Word for word translations sometimes make it difficult to understand a passage.
Perhaps that's not a good example because it is only missing the word of. This snippet from the same lesson may be a better example of unusual English.
It would be a remarkable sixth grade teacher who had enough self restraint to refrain from filling the page with red marks and question marks. I wouldn't fault a language learner for such prose, but it seems a course in language learning would have higher standards. We have a thread dedicated to the shortcomings in the translations in Assimil Using Spanish. I think the course still has value, and I'm using it every day, but there seems to be more value in the audio, rather than the translation. Edited by luke on 05 February 2007 at 5:57am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Linguamor Decaglot Senior Member United States Joined 6622 days ago 469 posts - 599 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, Danish, French, Norwegian, Portuguese, Dutch | Message 32 of 96 05 February 2007 at 2:40am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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It seems clear from the above posts that the use of translation in Assimil is causing problems for many learners. I would make the following suggestions for working through an Assimil course.
Don't let the translations become an obstacle. During the passive stage, make understanding the target language the objective. To the extent the translations are helpful, use them. When they are not, try using a dictionary to work out the meaning of the target language. Your goal should be to read and listen to the text, using whatever means possible to understand the meaning of it, until you can read and listen to it and understand it as Italian (or whatever language you're learning), without translating. When you have reached this stage, when you can read the target language text and understand it, it's time to try translating it. Going from the meaning of the target language text, translate it into your native language. You can be as literal or as free in your translation as you like - this is your translation. When you feel you are ready to begin the active stage, make use of your own translation as the source for translating into the target language. Try dividing the text up into "chunks" of language on the basis of meaning, and translate these first, - 'rush hour' = 'ora di punta' - before translating the whole sentence. If you feel the grammar explanations are inadequate, get a grammar book. For Italian, Teach Yourself Italian Grammar would be a good choice at this level. Edited by Linguamor on 05 February 2007 at 3:02am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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