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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| manny Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6350 days ago 248 posts - 240 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Tagalog Studies: French, German | Message 9 of 123 12 September 2007 at 10:29am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
We know that children learn languages faster. I believe one of the main reasons (not the only one) is that they are not afraid to make mistakes like some adults who need "all their ducks lined up in a row" before even starting to communicate. The types of mistakes you mentioned are the same ones that new-young students make in ESL classes. I always make mistakes that people laugh at but they are always opportunities for learning. I am NOT worried about "getting wrong patterns wired into my brain" since I am in an intensive learning mode. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| xtremelingo Trilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6279 days ago 398 posts - 515 votes Speaks: English*, Hindi*, Punjabi* Studies: German, French, Arabic (Written) | Message 10 of 123 12 September 2007 at 10:47am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Yes, and alot of the stuff I am posting about in terms of language education come from my experience teaching ESL students in mathematics and science. So often, I have played a double-role as a language teacher.
Imagine teaching a bunch of smart immigrant kids (some ESL) physics (which is highly language and mathematics based, because of its problem-solving nature). But their main problem is not the math or problem-solving skill, but their inability to convert the language into smaller pieces, understanding the question analytically and converting it to logic (mathematics). Once they overcome these obstacles, many of them have no problem figuring out the problem or computing the math. In addition I have taught english extensively to members (over 200 students) of my (E.Indian) community, whom today are pretty fluent. Many for the reasons to minimize the type of discrimination they would experience being visible minorities in this foreign country (Canada is my birth country, although my parents are immigrants as well). Language-barriers are probably the largest cause of mutual misunderstandings of culture between different communities, this problem thus reinforces discrimiation, stereotyping etc. Edited by xtremelingo on 12 September 2007 at 10:51am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| manny Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6350 days ago 248 posts - 240 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Tagalog Studies: French, German | Message 11 of 123 12 September 2007 at 10:57am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
To fine tune it. It is the fear of making mistakes in communicating which leads to NO communication. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| edwin Triglot Senior Member Canada towerofconfusi&Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6456 days ago 160 posts - 183 votes 9 sounds Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French, Spanish, Portuguese | Message 12 of 123 12 September 2007 at 11:00am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Sorry, I don't know about that. Are you sure? Any scientific proof? The reason why many immigrants seeing their kids speak the local language better is that they themselves are not immersed in the language as much as their kids are. I believe that given the equal amount of immersion in the language, adults should learn faster, as they are smarter. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| manny Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6350 days ago 248 posts - 240 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Tagalog Studies: French, German | Message 13 of 123 12 September 2007 at 11:17am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Think it is an urban myth? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| furyou_gaijin Senior Member Japan Joined 6378 days ago 540 posts - 631 votes Speaks: Latin* | Message 14 of 123 12 September 2007 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
That's brilliant. Care to elaborate? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6542 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 15 of 123 12 September 2007 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Excellent thread xtremelingo. Start speaking early, focus on communication, don't worry about mistakes. I try to do this too. I especially like talking to folks who don't feel the need to correct me. As long as I keep studying and listening, I'll correct myself.
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| furyou_gaijin Senior Member Japan Joined 6378 days ago 540 posts - 631 votes Speaks: Latin* | Message 16 of 123 12 September 2007 at 12:53pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
This is very laudable indeed yet most of this stuff was debated on this board in quite a lot of detail quite recently...
...and this is an erroneous expectation because: - most native speakers usually can't be bothered unless they are paid teachers - they tend to be very forgiving towards beginners' mistakes - they will get tired of correcting you all the time - they will feel self-conscious about correcting you all the time - they will want to praise your effort and will intentionally skip some minor errors - they will eventually become immune to your mistakes and will only pick out the message - the most talented and adaptative of them will even take over some of your errors and ways of speaking
As a beginning student, you have no right to be creative until you have mastered the norm. Memorising canned phrases is actually one of the best methods I know to get there fast. Try showing some creativity in a language with a vastly different sematic view of the world, such as Japanese, and you will come up with absolute gibberish. It's an extreme example of a language where if you don't know for sure how to say something, you can never get it right. Yet the same applies on a more limited scale to any language.
Sounds too complex... Why not just approach the native speaker in the first place?!
...and exactly for those reasons and for those stated above these people will make awful teachers. Try Mandarin on a bunch of language university students in Beijing: chances are that they are used to dealing with foreigners, understand how your English grammar affects what you might have to say in Mandarin, their ears are more attuned to tone mistakes, etc. They will let you get away with murder. Then try the same with a half-literate cab driver in a provincial town. You're likely to be the first foreigner he sees. Expect zero tolerance to tone mistakes: he just plainly won't get what you're saying. And such people usually make much better practice partners.
See my comments above. In Japanese - you will indeed get stuck if you haven't heard the canned phrase that deals with a particular topic before.
With all due respect, I believe maths and language teaching to be totally different things which require totally different approaches... Early errors in maths are not as fatal as early errors in languages. Edited by furyou_gaijin on 12 September 2007 at 12:56pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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