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Speaking like Tarzan will help you. | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| edwin Triglot Senior Member Canada towerofconfusi&Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6456 days ago 160 posts - 183 votes  9 sounds Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French, Spanish, Portuguese | Message 17 of 123 12 September 2007 at 1:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
Hmm.. can't you do it by practicing with yourself? I am talking about Day 1. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| xtremelingo Trilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6279 days ago 398 posts - 515 votes Speaks: English*, Hindi*, Punjabi* Studies: German, French, Arabic (Written) | Message 18 of 123 12 September 2007 at 1:14pm | IP Logged | |||||
foryou,
Are you joking? Early errors in math are EXTREMELY FATAL, math is very dependent on a strong base; building upto increased complexity and conceptual understanding. What is worse in mathematics is, mathematics is very logical and therefore adheres to very strict rules that hardly can be bent or broken, whereas in language there are many variables, methods of interpretation that assist both speaker and listener. Mathematics is either right or it's wrong. No grey area, and this is why errors here are far more fatal. I've had students answer questions to my test, whom made an error on the very first line of their solution, those errors carried through for the next 3-4 pages of their solution (they probably spent a good hour or so on just one question) to arrive to final but incorrect solution. Whereas in language, missing a punctuation mark here, spelling a word incorrectly there, messing up a bit of grammar on one sentence does not necessarily destroy the final result of what you're saying. Perhaps, mess a little with understanding, but it hardly carries through with the rest of the message. In fact, even if a mistake is made within language, say an essay for example, people often use intuition and logic and put the error into context to retrieve the correct meaning. Unfortunately, in mathematics, a mistake made in the very beginning will be shown LOUD AND CLEAR at the very end. Another reason why errors in math are more detrimental, The general public will not get to always see your math skills (unless you're very incompetent), compared to bad language skills that are easily noticed, recognized and often will turn-heads and become easily a subject of correction. You are most likely to be corrected in language than mathematics, simply because more people speak languages fluently, than they speak mathematics fluently. The approach in math and science is not what I am suggesting. It is the approach in studying smarter, not harder. Edited by xtremelingo on 12 September 2007 at 1:25pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| edwin Triglot Senior Member Canada towerofconfusi&Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6456 days ago 160 posts - 183 votes 9 sounds Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French, Spanish, Portuguese | Message 19 of 123 12 September 2007 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | |||||
I am not disagreeing with you on this point. But I wonder why at this early stage you need to speak with someone. You can basically achieve the same by practicing with yourself, which is much easier to do. It is a well-known fact that you simply cannot converse with people at this early stage. You just cannot understand whatever is coming back at you. Then you will switch back to your familiar language. In fact, the other person will automatically switch back after knowing that you have no idea of what he is saying. Honestly, have you tried this method yourself? If so, how long did the conversation at your target language last? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| manny Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6350 days ago 248 posts - 240 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Tagalog Studies: French, German | Message 20 of 123 12 September 2007 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
Brilliant? Common sense! As soon as I learn the correct way, I try to process-store it and move on. I am NOT paralyzed by fear of mistakes. What's your point? i.e. Your turn to elaborate. Edited by manny on 12 September 2007 at 1:36pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| xtremelingo Trilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6279 days ago 398 posts - 515 votes Speaks: English*, Hindi*, Punjabi* Studies: German, French, Arabic (Written) | Message 21 of 123 12 September 2007 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Edwin,
You CAN converse with yourself. However, I think that might become boring very quickly. It's like playing chess with yourself, it's not very challenging considering you will anticipate your own moves, reactions and responses. Talking to someone else, adds dynamics. You do not know, expect or anticipate how they will respond. This is what you need to learn, how to be ready for anything. When you talk to yourself (as audio programs with pre-defined dialogue work), you are not learning dynamic adaptation to the language/conversation. At this stage, the native speaker should also speak to you in a tarzan-ish style method, basically the (good) native speaker should work with your level. So if you speak like a tarzan/baby, he should speak the same back to you, until your level rises, then your native speaker takes you up a notch/level as well, while also giving you appropriate corrections based upon your skill level. So lets pretend here's a typical dialogue NS - Native Speaker U - YOU VERY BEGINNER: U: HELLO I HERE TODAY TALK NS: HELLO GOOD SEE YOU U: WHAT DO TODAY YOU NS: NOTHING I EAT LOOK TV U: I LOOK SUPERMAN MOVIE NS: SUPERMAN MOVIE GOOD NS: I LOOK SUPERMAN MOVIE YESTERDAY U: YOU LIKE MOVIE NS: YES GOOD MOVIE Analyze this conversation: There is a total of 17 unique words in this conversation. In this conversation, the following were addressed: - How are you both doing today. - Complimenting each other. - Asking what the other did today. - Replying with what was done today. - Telling what movie you watched today - Indicating you had seen the movie yesterday. - Asking if they liked the movie - Confirming they liked the movie. In a total vocabulary of 17 words was used and still effective communication is able to come across. This is very powerful. The idea is to keep your sentences very short, simple and get the communication across. Worry about fixing your grammar as you progress with your lessons and as you complete courses, and develop extensive vocabulary, your conversations and sentences will also increase in complexity and so will your dynamic ability to maintain dialogue in the target language. Your grammar will fix itself through more study and experience through speaking/listening as you learn the "filler" words and how they connect. Many languages that contain classes, such as gender, masculine, feminine, neuter, often slow the communication process because of their grammar rules. Grammar rules are IMPORTANT, but something that should be considered as you progress, not off the bat. Otherwise, you will spend a millenia perfecting grammar and still not learn creative-dynamic communication. Sure, speaking later after you have acquired a massive amount of canned phrases is great, you will have a arsenal of grammatically correct canned phrases, and sure that will get you far quickly, but where will you go from there once you have memorized these canned phrases that only work in specific situations? If you haven't developed the skills to engage in creative, dynamic and unique conversation and dialogue? Are you going to learn how to be creative-dynamic then? You can. But it is a pretty late start for it. Many people ask how do they THINK in a language, well first, you got to start speaking to get the THINKING and creativity going. Creativity and Thinking go hand in hand. Edited by xtremelingo on 12 September 2007 at 2:10pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| manny Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6350 days ago 248 posts - 240 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Tagalog Studies: French, German | Message 22 of 123 12 September 2007 at 1:49pm | IP Logged | |||||
It seems your personal experience is a lot more negative than mine. Fortunately, I have nice patient (read "older") native speakers to regularly practice with. The only exception is Mandarin, which I had 3 years of university study in the 1980's. Maybe I'll get some nice patient Mandarin speakers in time. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| edwin Triglot Senior Member Canada towerofconfusi&Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6456 days ago 160 posts - 183 votes 9 sounds Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French, Spanish, Portuguese | Message 23 of 123 12 September 2007 at 2:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
I think I can become more creative with a larger vocabulary in my arsenal. Talking to myself could be boring. But engaging in conversations like the one you have given is just bizarre. Thanks for your input. I think I will pass, and go with the "silent period" theory according the linguistic experts, which had well work for me in the past. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| manny Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6350 days ago 248 posts - 240 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Tagalog Studies: French, German | Message 24 of 123 12 September 2007 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | |||||
Experts!!! We are not talking about speaking before the UN. Edited by manny on 12 September 2007 at 2:43pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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