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| Rhoda Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5604 days ago 166 posts - 196 votes  Speaks: English*, French Studies: Latin, Swahili, Ancient Greek, German | Message 137 of 160 04 September 2009 at 4:48am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
That's good that the class seems fine so far! Are you planning to study or visit the Middle East sometime? It's funny how it seems as if travelling to a TL's country/area would automatically boost your skills, and yet...work is still required.
I guess I'm one of the guilty ones who reads Harry Potter in my TL...Of course, I do read other things, since I'm also interested in the beauty of the language and culture. With French especially, I've read heaps of classic literature, my favorites being Le Cid, Candide, and L'École des Femmes. But sometimes, I just want something fun and easy--hence Harry Potter. HP is also pretty good for seeing a more modern version of the language (and after being buried in literature studies, this is a welcome change).
In general, yes, I agree with you.
Oooo I have to disagree with that. There are not many things I like more than HP haha.
Interesting point, one that I haven't given much thought to. I would say that HP is beyond the reach of a beginner, but it's a great tool for someone with more knowledge. There's a lot of vocab in there that is useful, not to mention various idioms. Also, for someone who knows the TL very well and is also very, very familiar with Harry Potter, it is kind of fun to read various parts in the TL and sort of hear in your head the English, word-for-word as it was in the original. So it's cool to see how the two versions overlap, how the translations tweak things around and still manage to convey the same meaning (or not...). I find it fun to imagine how I would have translated differently, or if I think they altered the tone a tiny bit, etc. But the only reason I can do that is because I've read HP in English many many times and have huge pieces of it memorized (so I don't need to refer constantly to the English version while doing this).
I'll try not to take this as a personal insult :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| bouda Senior Member United States Joined 5601 days ago 194 posts - 197 votes Speaks: English* | Message 138 of 160 04 September 2009 at 9:03pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Yeah, I can't get over how much/how little the study abroad experience has helped my
various classmates. There is one kid who is excellent - she's come back with some sort of basic fluency and knows slang and everything - and then there are at least two who, well, I think they should be in level one because they can't even remember how to ask basic questions. But we'll see. I know some people take a while to warm up, so I'm not sweatin' it. I'm not going to argue whether Harry Potter is a literary masterpiece or not just because it's so subjective, you know? ;) I will agree that it's certainly enthralled the world - I have tons of friends who would kill me for my admission that it's not my thing! I also think she's succeeded in creating something readable and fun. I'll even concede that at least for the first few books her plots were interesting. So I'm not completely anti-Rowling - I actually do respect her for what she's done within the constraints of her genre and audience. But I do think that her strengths definitely lie in her power to "speak" to people rather than in terms of quality of style or prose. It just happened that, unfortunately, I wasn't one of the people "spoken" to. I also think that the fact that you have so much of HP memorized and are so familiar with the plot and context definitely is a boon to you when you read it in another language. See, when I read it in Chinese, I was not as in tune with the context nor as good at the language as I am now, so whenever I came across something like "Avada Kedavra" or "invisibility cloak," I'd get really confused. Spells presented obvious problems - it would usually take me a while to realize that they were spells and I actually ended up looking up a few character by character under the misassumption that they were vital words - and neologisms or uncommon phrases like "vanishing cabinet" would often take me aback because I simply wouldn't expect them; I'd wonder if I was translating them correctly. Of course, I did do this experiment when I was JUST starting out in Chinese, so perhaps a beginner with more under their belt will have an entirely different and more comfortable experience. I also have very different goals from most people in terms of foreign languages. I'm very ambitious, so although I know that I probably will never quite get there, I want one day to not only be able to speak with native fluency but also to write beautifully. An impossible goal, I know, but something to work towards. Anyway, most people don't find writing in their L2 very important at all other than in terms of basic functionality, so my point about "good writing" (in quotes for subjectivity) probably wouldn't matter to these people - after all, they don't want to write like the "masters," they just want to write on a basic level, which for the most part is all you need. Edited by bouda on 04 September 2009 at 9:06pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| bouda Senior Member United States Joined 5601 days ago 194 posts - 197 votes Speaks: English* | Message 139 of 160 05 September 2009 at 1:24am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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So my class is only about an hour long, but it meets 5 days a week, so I think that's
sufficient to motivate me to do stuff. I've just heard of something interesting - a women-run talk show along the lines of The View in Arabic named Kalam Nawa3em, ex as here http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=9b9ivn0fs8E . I don't understand much of it yet except random words and phrases, but I think it's great that it exists! Finally, I have discovered a new pet peeve of sorts: people who teach other languages to people but don't actually know these other languages they teach. I have no problem with, say, you knowing a little Japanese and your friend wanting to know a little Japanese, so you teach him some basic grammar and how to say good morning - I mean, I do that all the time, so it would be totally hypocritical of me. And I think that if you KNOW your material or in some cases check with native speakers before you attempt to teach it, that's great too. Or if you let the other person know if you think you don't know the language at an advanced level beforehand or something (for example, before language exchanges where the other person for some bizarre reason wants me to use my L2, or when tutoring friends who bizarrely want me to help them, I always say something like, "I've only been studying Mandarin for X amount of years, so I might make occasional mistakes, but I'll try my best to be accurate," as a disclaimer). But I have just had a really bad experience where I attempted a language exchange with someone who was not necessarily truthful about their language abilities and who in fact (accidentally) tried to teach me incorrect grammar while assuming a position of intellectual authority. It is possible that this was an honest mistake, because my "intermediate" may be your "beginner" or "advanced" - labels like this are very subjective. But it left me with an uncomfortable feeling and I don't know that I will attempt another language exchange with a non-native speaker in the future. In case you were wondering why I initially decided to ask a non-native speaker for help: - A good friend - Learned vocabulary last year that may be useful to me now - therefore, fresh in his mind and he is eager to use the words frequently in order to practice - Language exchange is in L2 for both of us, thus would help both of us and we wouldn't have to change languages halfway through (ex as in an English/Chinese language exchange), but we are - or should I say, we apparently were - both at an intermediate/advanced level so we won't be making too many silly mistakes Edited by bouda on 05 September 2009 at 1:30am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| bouda Senior Member United States Joined 5601 days ago 194 posts - 197 votes Speaks: English* | Message 140 of 160 05 September 2009 at 5:21am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Haven't really read this article yet - I try to read articles in the morning so I can
actually remember them - but I thought I'd post a link here for any similarly intrigued minds. http://home.earthlink.net/~apousada/id4.html "The Multilingualism of Joseph Conrad," Alicia Pousada (University of Puerto Rico, Rio Piedras). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| bouda Senior Member United States Joined 5601 days ago 194 posts - 197 votes Speaks: English* | Message 141 of 160 05 September 2009 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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I forgot to mention that I really hope to study in the Middle East maybe next summer,
because from what I've heard of my friends' experiences, it seems like the stage between intermediate and advanced or intermediate and high intermediate is a good time for all that jazz. But the problem is that it seems like there aren't a lot of good programs for this kind of stuff for students at a lower level of proficiency. I don't know for sure though as I have not really done any research. My plan today: - continue memorizing forms (I have them basically memorized, but I don't know their corresponding numbers) - review chapters 10 to 18 of al-Kitaab Part One - maybe do some Anki at last, although the omission doesn't seem to be hurting me - whatever homework is - RETURN books to library; FIND the maalouf book!!!! I also thought I'd take the time to update on my class. Now, I don't want to bad-mouth anyone in my class on the off-chance that they might somehow track me down (I know I have at least one future classmate on here who I have made contact with... you know who you are, if by some reason you are reading this thread!). But let's just say that there are good points and bad points to my class, and the good point is that it's a great ego-booster. I'm sure that as the year wears on, many people will begin to remember long-lost grammar points, etc, which I definitely look forward to. Edited by bouda on 05 September 2009 at 5:40pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| bouda Senior Member United States Joined 5601 days ago 194 posts - 197 votes Speaks: English* | Message 142 of 160 06 September 2009 at 1:10am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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So essentially, I am burned out from doing Arabic. This afternoon, I got together all
my books, set off for my favorite cafe, ordered an excellent kabusecha, and... found myself completely adverse to doing anything related to the glorious Arabic language. I think this is because, after long awaiting the start of my class, I find myself doing endless drills in things I already know well with classmates who apparently don't. Which is great review and all, except that I already have reviewed. I know this will change early next week as we begin our real work, but it's a little demotivating - I'm one of those flighty, easily bored people who need to be doing something EXCITING in order to get anything done well, although I'm trying to work more on my dedication and discipline. So yes, a little burned out from doing my homework. I am still interested in listening to radio, etc but don't feel any desire to touch my textbook. So instead, I went and bought a collection of short stories. It was great. I haven't confessed this to anyone who knows me in "reality" yet, but as far as I know, I actually have not touched a physical book in English since beginning my studies this summer except for textbooks and, on two occasions, translations from the Arabic. It's amazing what the absence has done for - or to - me. Every well-crafted English sentence is a source of constant wonder. Even badly crafted English sentences are fascinating. My ability to skim passages of texts or read out loud fluently is an endless source of entertainment. And while I have tended in the past towards being highly critical, now I have a hard time summoning an evaluative or discerning eye when faced with the vast array of words I ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND. I feel like a gourmand coming off starvation. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| bouda Senior Member United States Joined 5601 days ago 194 posts - 197 votes Speaks: English* | Message 143 of 160 08 September 2009 at 12:21am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Okay, after a glorious day of Middlemarch and pomegranate juice, back to Arabic. Luckily,
we're almost done with review!! Not sure if this is good or bad, but since I'm auditing, I don't have to do the homework. Good because, well, it would be nice to not do the homework, although I'll probably do it anyway to keep on top of things. Bad because I won't necessarily know if I make a mistake! I've now wrapped nine books in butcher paper. Unfortunately, my handwriting is so messy on the spines that it doesn't look professional and beautiful, as I had envisioned, but more kindergarten crafty. No problemo. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| bouda Senior Member United States Joined 5601 days ago 194 posts - 197 votes Speaks: English* | Message 144 of 160 08 September 2009 at 3:34am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Lulled by the soft sound of Russian drifting from a nearby classroom this morning, I
was reading a copy of Nabokov's Lectures on Russian Literature when I come across this passage in the section about Gogol's "The Overcoat":
I will however stick fast to my initial decision not to start learning Russian for at least another two weeks. Edited by bouda on 08 September 2009 at 3:37am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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