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Are Japanese natives generally exclusive? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| hombre gordo Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5584 days ago 184 posts - 247 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Japanese Studies: Portuguese, Korean | Message 1 of 66 12 September 2009 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
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"排他的なのは日本人の通弊である" - "Exclusiveness is a fault common among the Japanese"
This was one of the example sentences for 通弊 (a common fault) in the Yahoo dictionary. I read this example sentence, laughed to myself and thought to myself how true is this of Japanese people in general. Lately I seem to be under the impression that Japanese native speakers seem to have an exclusive attitude towards foriegners even with regards to language. At least compared to other people. I have found that when I have tried to make friends with and start up conversations in Japanese with Japanese exchange students here in England, most seem to dislike it, give me a cold response, give me a push off attitude and only respond in English. Their exclusive group mentality seems to kick in and they seem to make a point of only speaking to their own kind in Japanese. I have found it hard to find people to practice with over here, but I'll soon be going there so there is no problem. On the other hand, I now have several Korean friends here who in turn introduce me to more Korean people. I don't even try to get these Koreans to speak Korean with me and most of the time I need them to speak English because my Korean isn't developed enough yet. However, on hearing that I am studying Korean, they always force me to use Korean with them and seem really appreciative that I am taking an interest in their language and culture. Admittedly my Korean is still terrible and basic conversation is still quite a challenge for me. Yet they are so patient and continue to encourage me to use their language, even though they are strangers and we have met for the first time! In conrast, I have a solid grasp of both spoken and written Japanese, have good auditory comprehension, have a huge vocabulary and feel that Japanese is now my strongest foreign language. I have invested so much into this language. I don't want to come across as bragging, but I think that my Japanese is better than the English of most of the exchange students at the internation bar where I go (some speak really poor English of course because of they stick together with fellow nationals even when they are abroad). The Japanese here seem exclusive whereas the Koreans here seem really welcoming. The hispanics over here are also generally welcoming to people attempting to use Spanish. Do other people get the impression that Japanese people generally have quite an exclusive attitude and in particular seem reluctant to use their language with foreigners? 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| lancemanion Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5573 days ago 150 posts - 166 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Thai Studies: French, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 2 of 66 13 September 2009 at 3:00am | IP Logged | |||||
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Not at all. Maybe you're having some bad luck?
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| maaku Senior Member United States Joined 5575 days ago 359 posts - 562 votes Speaks: English* | Message 3 of 66 13 September 2009 at 9:43am | IP Logged | |||||
Maybe because they came there to study English, and not to teach you Japanese? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6273 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 4 of 66 13 September 2009 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
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You can't be 100% sure of the response you will get when you try talking in an L2. Even though some generalisations may be possible, there are always going to be exceptions. Any of these scenarios can happen.
1. Enthusiasm for your attempt to use the language, and some attempt to help you out. 2. An indulgent, slightly mocking attitude to any language mistakes you make, or even your accent. 3. A refusal to speak to you in the language, perhaps because they prefer to speak English. A variation of this is that they practically grab hold of you for English practice. 4. Some suspicion of an obvious foreigner who knows the language. You might even get combinations of these scenarios in the same encounter. No doubt other situations are possible but they just haven't occurred to me. All four scenarios have happened to me. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| hombre gordo Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5584 days ago 184 posts - 247 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Japanese Studies: Portuguese, Korean | Message 5 of 66 13 September 2009 at 1:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
I understand where you are coming from. When I meet people at this bar, if they tell me that the wish to only use English I will happily speak to them in English. I mean that's why they are here isn't it. If people get a bit peed off when I use Japanese with them, I never pesist and will always be willing to speak English with them. But when I was in Japan I had some people trying to get some English practice out of me, and so I thought I would try to do the same back home just to make up for it. But I will bear their reactions in mind when I go to Japan. I will be heading there pretty soon. When any Japanese people approach me in English I will be sure to give them the same cold responses I got when I tried to use Japanese back home. I am sure people will think I'm a jerk for it. But all I am doing is the same thing that the Japanese people were doing back in my country. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| hombre gordo Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5584 days ago 184 posts - 247 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Japanese Studies: Portuguese, Korean | Message 6 of 66 13 September 2009 at 1:35pm | IP Logged | |||||
Thanks for your response William. Just out of curiosity, from your own experience do a lot of Poles and Turks fall under category 1? The Polish immigrants at work seem so proud of their own language and seem enthusiastic whenever anyone attempts even a bit of Polish. I mean who learns Polish!? Not may people. So attempting to learn Polish must show a lot respect for their culture. Category 4: Some suspicion of an obvious foreigner who knows the language Suspicion? What sort of suspicion? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| maaku Senior Member United States Joined 5575 days ago 359 posts - 562 votes Speaks: English* | Message 7 of 66 13 September 2009 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
That's the right attitude. There's certainly nothing wrong with trying, as long as you're willing to switch languages back to English if that's what they desire. Some people may even enjoy the opportunity to relax in their native language... but I've met the people (some from Japan, some from China, although I'm sure it's global) that strike up a conversation with you in English but totally lose interest when you transition to their native language. That attitute would be language rape. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| qklilx Moderator United States Joined 6187 days ago 459 posts - 477 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Korean Personal Language Map | Message 8 of 66 13 September 2009 at 10:26pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Personally the closest thing to that I've come across in respect to Japanese is a pair of friends who rarely spoke to me in Japanese, and eventually after a couple minutes would demand, happily and jokingly, but serious at the same time, that I speak English because my Japanese is good enough and their English isn't. Well, that was true to a certain extent so I obliged them. When I was in Japan on vacation the only Japanese people who spoke to me in English were ones who already knew how to have a conversation in it or those who had no choice because I didn't understand what they were saying.
I've never had a Korean deny me my right to speak Korean, and unless they don't care about English they usually do a lot of code switching when they talk to me even if they are horrible at English. I don't think you'll have anything to worry about when you're in Japan. As long as you act stupid with the high school students who "practice" English with you you'll be fine. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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