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Muddling through in TAC ’10 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| annette Senior Member United States Joined 5510 days ago 164 posts - 192 votes  Speaks: English* | Message 57 of 95 16 July 2010 at 7:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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Just finished reviewing the introductory course package (approximately 550 basic
characters). I wasn't surprised to find that I can still understand/read everything but have forgotten how to write. That's what happens when you more or less cease study for a year but for listening comprehension. What was surprising was that there were actually a few characters that I don't think I have ever known how to write - things like 幅 (as in 一幅画), which I can certainly understand and can read in context but yeah, this is my first time actually memorizing how to write that character. So that was interesting. I'm not very discouraged though because most of the characters were very familiar indeed and I can feel it all coming back to me already. I'm a little more worried for when I jump back into media vocabulary (ie no longer just review), which I will probably get to later this week. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| annette Senior Member United States Joined 5510 days ago 164 posts - 192 votes Speaks: English* | Message 58 of 95 18 July 2010 at 2:38am | IP Logged | ||
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This is going to be a long rambling post, almost definitely nonsensical as I am
trying to talk myself through my learning plan. Out of the introductory course package set I ended up making about 130 flashcards. Actually kind of embarrassing, especially considering that I haven't included any traditional character counterparts. I haven't done my sets for today, so I don't know how many of those I legitimately can't write (as opposed to "That looks vaguely complicated, so I guess I'll stick it in just in case"), but ... yeah. Kind of embarrassing. No, really embarrassing. I also haven't practiced my speaking for about 6 weeks and am disappointed to find that I am a little out of practice.... in pronunciation!!!! WHAT!!! I think my mouth is getting lazy. Even my English (native language, hello) is starting to sound weird to my ears. Which is strange, considering that I've obviously been speaking English for the last 6 weeks. I don't know. Maybe there is something wrong with my mouth. I don't think it has anything to do with my medications, but then again, many things have to do with my medications. Anyway, when I speak I can physically feel that my mouth is no longer in the right shape, specifically my lips (I think the tongue is fine; my tones are fine too). Maybe I should try to exaggerate my pronunciation for a while and re-train myself. Next year, I am hoping to take Chinese at my university, so I will have to work hard to ensure I place in a course I like. I know that I do NOT want to be in the heritage track because I really do not consider myself a heritage student (for those who haven't been following my long and embarrassing saga: I have Chinese heritage but rejected all things Asian at an early age, ended up having to learn Chinese from scratch in high school; as a result Chinese is distinctly a foreign language for me but regardless of how well I actually do at it, my speaking/listening sounds pretty good due to the 24/7 help from my Asian relatives who were more than delighted to practice with me and speak to me for the first time; it gets even more shameful but now I'm rambling). Wow, long tangent. Anyway, I've been in a heritage track situation before (only class available to me at my high school) and I really did not enjoy it or learn well in it and I really really really do not want to repeat that experience. In a best case scenario situation, I would place in an advanced course, where heritage and non-heritage mingle freely and teaching focuses on literature and media rather than the language proper. Realistically, that isn't going to happen unless I can drastically increase the number of characters I can write. And that's where I am now. Trying frantically to remember the characters I once knew and to add on some more advanced vocabulary so I can pass the placement test without too many tears. Intro Chinese - 550 characters (course package I'm reviewing; 130 flashcards) 2nd yr - more basic vocabulary, peripheral enough that I'm skipping to... 3rd year - media vocabulary, I've borrowed the textbook. Vocabulary index spans 40 pages with about 45 terms per page = 1800 terms, many of which I will be encountering for the first time. 4th year - technically does more media vocabulary but I've spoken to students in 4th year and looked at materials and sat in on class and it appears that the program is quite sloppy and undeveloped and is pretty much the same thing as the well-developed 3rd year. So I'm gambling that if I know my 3rd year media vocab really really really really well, I'll be able to score high enough in the placement test to gain entrance to... Advanced seminars - pipe dreams... About 2000 words to memorize before August 22nd if at all possible (ha) Assuming I only work for 35 days, that's about 60 words/day Haven't studied characters in so long (approx two years as I was never tested on character writing in the last class I took) that I actually have no idea how long it's going to take me to memorize unknown characters... some of which I won't even know how to read because my scant background is in literature and this is all media... + listening comprehension for media (do I have CD component of textbook?) SCHEDULING/COMMITMENTS/KTL + tutoring? is this even happening? $$? WORK OUT DETAILS W/, when/how? + project get a life (yeah, not gonna happen) + get ahold of s (TUES), work on f (figure out schedule) + remember to work out visits to a/j + SEND IN C FEE ON MONDAY!!!! FIGURE OUT IF SCHOLARSHIP WENT THROUGH (o fck) + language partner? + try to mainland-ify my Chinese so I am not such a laughingstock when I open my mouth? I actually don't think I sound Taiwanese at all (trust, I've heard the accent, my first few teachers were Taiwanese) but sometimes people tell me that I do... maybe it's the fact that I don't drawl/slur my words... + quit smoking? nahhh. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Snowflake Senior Member United States Joined 5963 days ago 1032 posts - 1233 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 59 of 95 18 July 2010 at 4:29am | IP Logged | ||
For what it's worth, after a decent amount of agony over what accent should I learn and then the struggle to learn Mandarin (am still struggling) it now doesn't matter to me if my accent ends up being say Taiwanese or for that matter American. Mandarin is hard enough and to add the pressure of thinking you must speak with a specific accent only adds unneeded stress. Relax. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6474 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 60 of 95 18 July 2010 at 9:56am | IP Logged | ||
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I learned ca. 2600 characters in 2009, without hurrying, so it's doable if not
enjoyable. Key is to understand the character parts and link them up in your mind, otherwise they'll all look interchangeable at some point. I used "Reading and Writing Chinese Characters" by Tuttle because they teach the characters in a good order. For me, it's important to know simpler characters before tackling the more complex ones. For example, 湿 is easier to memorize if you recognize water + appear. If you just see water + sun + industry, it's harder to link that to the meaning, but also I had another problem: if I studied this as water + sun + industry and later learned 显 then my link would disappear, I'd start seeing water + appear and not think to look for a link I created with water + sun + industry. Anyway, if you want tutoring, you might like Myngle. You can get individual lessons there or a 30-day flatrate. I'm thinking the flatrate might be useful for the last month before classes start. Good luck! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| annette Senior Member United States Joined 5510 days ago 164 posts - 192 votes Speaks: English* | Message 61 of 95 19 July 2010 at 12:20am | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks to both of you for the words of comfort! Snowflake, I think you're right - I'm
not going to worry too hard about my accent, at least for now. The funny thing is that I actually kind of like the way I sound - oddly enough I prefer it to the way I sound in English - so I don't know what I was freaking out about. Though I would like to work with more mainland materials in the future. The other day I was speaking to some people from Beijing and I had a harder time following their accent (or maybe just the way they phrased things?) than expected. I think I'm getting too used to my Taiwanese family and friends! Sprachprofi, that's a good point about how you need to know more basic characters in order to help with the more complicated ones. Right now I recognize radicals and simple parts but my character knowledge has deteriorated so much that I don't really know many of my basic characters any more. So with your example, I'd see water + sun + industry but not water + appear. I guess I know what I need to work on now! Today I began making flashcards for my intermediate-ish vocabulary and halfheartedly started my basic character review. For some reason I'm having a hard time forcing myself to get going on the basic characters, probably because I am ashamed that I've forgotten so many. In comparison, the prospect of learning new/new-ish intermediate material is fresh and exciting. But clearly this is one of those things that I've just gotta hunker down and do. One hundred untested flashcards left... With tutoring, I think I might end up drawing on friends and family again, if they're not sick of me and my ill-concealed attempts to practice Chinese on them already. I'm also thinking of maaaaaaaaaaybe (and this is a big maybe) doing some probably unpaid tutoring myself for very introductory level Chinese. (There's a local introductory level class I know people at that's low on TAs.) My tones and pronunciation are good enough that I can be of help in that area if nowhere else, and teaching people things I know always helps me feel more confident in my abilities. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| dragonfly Triglot Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 6483 days ago 204 posts - 233 votes Speaks: Russian*, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: German, Italian, Mandarin | Message 62 of 95 19 July 2010 at 10:20am | IP Logged | ||
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Hi, Annette!
I also came across the problem of forgetting the old characters. I know not to forget them I have to have more input, but just now I just don't have time to it. Following your example, I want to make hand-written flashcards, containing not only words but some context. You know, teaching is a great way of learning. When you start teaching, you become aware of some intricances of the language you have never mentioned before. Good luck! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| annette Senior Member United States Joined 5510 days ago 164 posts - 192 votes Speaks: English* | Message 63 of 95 19 July 2010 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hand-written flashcards is a great idea, I think, for Chinese. I am actually using
electronic flashcards right now because they're so much easier to make and I can download them onto my ipod for quick review, but I actually think that hand-written might have been better in some ways. With Chinese, I find it much easier to memorize characters if I've written them by hand and have that muscle memory. Seeing the characters in my own handwriting instead of the annoying font my flashcards use probably would help too... My plan with my intermediate-ish materials is to make flashcards for and cram one chapter of my textbook every day until I am done cramming the vocab once over, and then spend time going back for review. There are 11 chapters in this textbook and most chapters have only about 4 sheets of vocab, that's about 80 terms but with overlap. I haven't studied characters for so long that I'm not sure how this is going to work out, but my experience with other languages is that I learn vocabulary best when I do a general overview as quickly as possible and then review slowly, so we'll see if that holds true for me here. I'm trying this out for my first chapter right now. I slacked yesterday so I'm behind schedule, but I still have about a month left to see how far I can get. ETA: Just finished making flashcards for my first chapter. There are only 79 vocab words. I know all the terms by ear and can read most of them. However, writing the characters, as always, is another story! Taking a quick break and then gunning down and memorizing these things soon. OK... I have proven myself to be terrible at making myself study. This has to change! I am going to study for 15 min until 12:05 (have to get up early tomorrow), and then tomorrow I suppose I shall have to try and do two days' worth. Good thing I'll be up so early in the morning. Edited by annette on 20 July 2010 at 5:49am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| annette Senior Member United States Joined 5510 days ago 164 posts - 192 votes Speaks: English* | Message 64 of 95 20 July 2010 at 8:27pm | IP Logged | ||
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Okay! 80 words down... now I just have 80 more to go for today (I'm a day behind
schedule). Memorizing these things is a lot easier than I thought it'd be, although I'm worried that I'll get confused when I'm further in, because the mnemonics I'm using right now are kind of sloppy. I'm memorizing characters by linking stories with the parts that I recognize, which is fine, except that it turns out that I have some really weird associations for the parts! For example, I was memorizing the word for "to kick" (ti1) and I kept on thinking, "He's kicking the sun, he's kicking the sun," because the right side (yi3... I think... not up on my names) for some reason strongly reminds me of the sun. I had no idea why though. It took me a while before I realized that it is because the character for yang2 in traditional (!!!) has a part a little like that part, except with an extra line in the middle. I'm not sure any of that made sense to people who are not me, but my point is, I'm having a lot of weird and intense radical/character associations like this, and not all of them are as easily traceable. Some have to do with traditional characters like this example whereas others seemed to have been pulled from thin air... Anyway, two more chapters to make into flashcards and cram for today if I want to be on schedule. It's only 2:30 PM, so I should be able to make them into flashcards very quickly and still have time for sunlight. Memorizing/reviewing 80 terms this morning took me about an hour, let's see if I can keep that pace even as I start coming across more unknown characters! 4:00 PM - Okay, that took longer than I expected to make flashcards. I actually still have one more chapter to go! I really wish the flashcard program I'm using would allow me to make a third "side" to my flashcards though. I could switch back to Anki, but I've been using this website for a long time for other things and I rather enjoy keeping all my study flashcards in one place. Also, Anki makes my computer crash. Time for a break and then I'll make my last 70 flashcards and start memorizing again. 11:11 PM - It has become very clear that forcing myself off my butt is by far the hardest part of this project. I make the flashcards quickly and memorize the terms with adequate speed, but it takes me HOURS to convince myself to start studying. I think the lazy heat of summer is starting to get to me. Anyway, I have not studied my last 80 terms today yet, HOWEVER I am only one day behind (studied my first 80 this morning), so I can still catch up easily! Right? RIGHT? Edited by annette on 21 July 2010 at 5:12am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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