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TAC’14 2ième - J’aimerais être bilingue | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| microsnout TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member Canada microsnout.wordpress Joined 5469 days ago 277 posts - 553 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 33 of 46 18 April 2012 at 6:32am | IP Logged |
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Back in Toronto
My two month stay in Montréal ended March 31 and I am back in Toronto. It seemed to pass too quickly compared to my 5 month stay last winter but was fun and useful nonetheless. I met quite regularly with my two friends and language partners Jacques and Sébastien but as expected half the time was spent talking English. The tutor I mentioned above, Sarah was great and it was too bad I only had one month and 9 meetings with her. The meetup group language exchanges were not very useful as I just don't get much out of talking to other students. I still went to these mainly to socialize and perhaps meet new language partners while helping people with English. I made some good progress at avoiding English language replies this year and found in some cases that it was easy to switch the conversation back to French. One time when a transit worker asked me a question in English, a simple "Oui" response caused him to switch back to French. I noticed this kind of language duality a few times. Once in a restaurant there was a group speaking 70% French, 30% English and they sounded native in both languages. It was like there was some thoughts that they believed better expressed in one language or the other. Another time a woman I was speaking to answered a phone call and switched languages about 3 or 4 times during the short call. When asked about it she said she did not realize she had done that. (This woman was anglophone but had lived 30 years in a 98% French speaking town married to a francophone ex-husband - very bilingual) In both these cases, both languages were 'pure', not a Franglais or anything like that. This is what lead me to believe that it might be easy to re-switch the language and in some cases it was. Despite relative successes in Montreal I think that it is time to intensify the immersion experience a bit by spending some time in a highly francophone region where few people speak English and by avoiding English by trying to make some friends who are not language partners. This may be the only way to achieve the comfort level I seek in the language. This will be the next as yet unplanned mission. An interesting dictation Here is a dramatic example of how important the present tense is. As an exercise with my tutor I did a dictation of an 8 minute video interview between two francophone ladies discussing a TV series that I watched called "Apparences". Out of curiosity I decided to count how often different verb tenses were used and the results were rather surprising. In 8 minutes of conversation about a show they had both watched (in the past) the count of verb conjugations was: 0 0% Futur antérieur 0 0% Plus-que-parfait 0 0% Conditionnel passé 1 0.6% Futur simple 2 1.2% Subjonctif 2 1.2% Imparfait 4 2.4% Futur proche 5 2.9% Conditionnel 6 3.6% Passé composé 150 88.0% Présent I realize that the results are skewed a bit in favor of the present because when you talk about a story that occurred in the past you often shift time to put yourself in the story so that you can easily talk about scenes before and after the one you are focusing on but still, it is a bit unexpected. The Super Challenge I am interested in attempting the 'Super Challenge' idea proposed by Solfrid Cristin to watch 100 films and read 100 books over 20 months. The book part will be especially difficult but we will see how it goes. I am likely in violation of the requirements by being a solid B2 level but I have not been evaluated recently so I will viciously deny it as the challenge is too tempting to pass up. Besides the last time I was in a class (Québec City Oct 2011), the textbook we used was labeled B1. Edited by microsnout on 18 April 2012 at 6:55am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5379 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 34 of 46 18 April 2012 at 3:30pm | IP Logged |
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Salut!
Il y a beaucoup de villes le long du Saint-Laurent qui ont de petites communautés de gens qui font du bateau. Je viens de Sorel et il y a plusieurs marinas dans la région -- et pas d'anglophones ;) Il y a même des îles habitées qui ne sont accessibles que par bateau. Bref, je pense que ce serait une excellente idée d'aller explorer des villes francophones. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| microsnout TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member Canada microsnout.wordpress Joined 5469 days ago 277 posts - 553 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 35 of 46 19 April 2012 at 7:23am | IP Logged |
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Salut Arekkusu
Merci de tes conseils. Ça ferait un bon voyage bien sûr. Je viens juste de lancer le bateau aujourd'hui et je commence à faire des réparations bien attendues. Je compte rester à bord dès le 1 mai. Un ami qui a déjà navigué jusqu'en Terre-Neuve m'a dit que le point de non-retour, c'est la ville de Québec au-delà duquel je ne serai pas en mesure de retourner la même saison à cause du courant. En y allant, il a fait une escale à Harrington Harbour, le petit village bien connu du film "La grande séduction" mais le village était plutôt anglophone. Peu importe, il est très peu probable que je l'atteigne. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| microsnout TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member Canada microsnout.wordpress Joined 5469 days ago 277 posts - 553 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 36 of 46 02 June 2012 at 11:26pm | IP Logged |
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Super Challenge Monthly Summary 1/20 May-2012
55/100 Films "30 Vies", Season 2 Episodes 01-60 (60 episodes of 22 min each) "30 Vies", Season 1 Episodes 01-60 (60 episodes of 22 min each) "Toute la vérité", Season 3 Vol 1 (10 episodes of 45 min each) "Toute la vérité", Season 2 (20 episodes of 45 min each) "Toute la vérité", Season 1 (20 episodes of 45 min each) I am now watching the first season of a series called "19-2" which is about police officers in Montreal, as in patrol car 2 of 19 division. I was disappointed to find that with this series my comprehension level has dropped about 20 percentage points compared to '30 Vies' and 'Toute la vérité' which is partly because I had watched those two series before and was accustomed to the characters. Perhaps it is also the informal banter of street cops compared to teachers and lawyers. I felt my 80-90% comprehension of 'Toute la vérité' had been rolled back to 60-70% in this series. I suppose that means I should watch more of it but I just don't like the series as much as the other two. Back in Montréal I am back in Montréal for the weekend, downtown at the heart of daily student demonstrations that have been going on for over 100 days now. Even after 120 episodes of '30 Vies', a series based on a Montréal high school, I still find teenagers chatting in the street difficult to understand. I had a pleasant evening with my friend and language partner yesterday enjoying good food and beer on a terrace in Vieux-Longueuil across the river from Montréal on the south shore. Even there a small group of protesters marched by but they seemed to be more celebrating than protesting. I noticed again the strong contrast between the language there and what I hear at the French meetup groups back in Toronto and thought it is no wonder those meetups help so little. I understood my language partner very well but often got lost when he flirted with the waitress (which was almost every time she walked by) which I think shows that in a one on one conversation a native speaker will subconsciously adapt to your level to some degree even if they promise not to. I will be escaping the city on Monday (I feel like writing in French just so I don't have to capitalize day and language names) to visit the home town of my language partner called Saint-Sylvère which no other Québécois I have talked to has even heard of, they keep thinking I mean Saint-Sauveur which is a better known and bigger town in the Laurentian mountains (Les Laurentides). Edited by microsnout on 06 June 2012 at 7:32pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| microsnout TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member Canada microsnout.wordpress Joined 5469 days ago 277 posts - 553 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 37 of 46 06 June 2012 at 7:22pm | IP Logged |
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Immersion to the point of drowning
Back on my boat in Toronto after a short 4 days of immersion time. After spending Sunday at a music festival in Saint-Lambert I head to Saint-Sylvère for a day (too many saints in this province). It was a perfect sunny day at the festival where I watched an outdoor production of the French opera 'Carmen' which I am familiar with from the movie version. Stunning sound quality for an outdoor event, wish I hadn't missed the beginning including the two best songs, the Habanera "L'amour est un oiseau rebelle" and the Toreador song. Then on to Saint-Sylvère.. I thought it was bad enough being reduced to 60% comprehension from 80% as I explained in the last post but now I have experienced being reduced to less than 5% during my one day in Saint-Sylvère. My friend introduced me to a childhood friend of his that is always called a nickname that sounds to me like 'Récar'. He was a very friendly, musical, gregarious man, ponytail, goatee beard, generous with food, beer and other substances. He talked literally non-stop, the only problem being I couldn't understand a word of it, I didn't even believe it was French at first. I did achieve a strong 5% comprehension level after a couple hours and discovered some interesting truths: some native speakers cannot adapt to accommodate your level, they talk the way they talk, end of story. I even began to suspect that a standard "Alliance Française" classroom French sounded almost as foreign to him as English because the more you talk like him, the better he understands you - so instead of "Sébasten, il est debout ?" I try to say "Sébastien, y'd'bout ?" Then to my relief, his wife arrives and wow! her I can understand - awesome. She tells me that she to had to get used to Récar at first and she still can't understand his brother too well. After a wonderful BBQ meal outdoors we settle indoors. Récar occasionally emits a very rapid highly excited rant about something. Sébastien asks me "Did you understand that", I say "not a word", he grins and says "me niether". I suspect he was exaggerating because he has known him since childhood - how they could grow up in the same town and end up speaking so differently is beyond me. Several more hours of immersion pass during which I can understand 2 of the 3 people present - very useful yes but sitting at a table with 3 smokers is starting to kill me (literally no doubt) and I'm thinking there has got to be an easier way to learn this language - last thought of the day "J'vas m'coucher moé, la boucane m'tue". (I should add that earlier in the day, I met others in this town who were also difficult for me to understand compared to my friend but not near impossible like Récar.) Edited by microsnout on 06 June 2012 at 8:11pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5530 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 38 of 46 06 June 2012 at 8:27pm | IP Logged |
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Je parle souvent avec une québécoise de Trois Rivières sur Skype, et chaque fois, je
pense que je perde un niveau entier, de (grosso modo) B2(*) à B1. Avec quelqu'un de la France, je peux discuter des politiques, des actualités — et je peux défendre mes avis. Mais avec quelqu'un du Québec ? C'est toujours : « Est-ce que tu as des passe-temps ? Oui, j'aime aussi lire des livres. » Ou peut-être : « Ah, tu a dit les manchots, et pas les mains chaudes. Pardon. » Il nous embête un peu. Mais après trois heures, c'est déjà beaucoup plus facile, grâce à elle. Quant à l'immersion, je parle en français avec ma femme depuis presque quatre mois. Au début, l'immersion était frustrante comme tout. J'était toujours épuisé, est il m'arrivait souvent d'avoir besoin de dormir aussitôt, c'est-à-dire maintenant. Pas dans 10 minutes. Mon cerveau était plein. (En fait, j'ai eu une longueur d'avance : ma femme avait parlé en français avec nos enfants depuis trois ans, et j'ai compris presque tout qu'elle disait quand j'ai commencé l'immersion.(**)) (*) Selon ma tutrice. Il me reste 6 jours avant le DELF B2. (**) Corrigez-moi, s'il vous plaît. J'ai eu des ennuis avec les temps des verbes ici. Mon pauvre cerveau. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5379 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 39 of 46 06 June 2012 at 8:30pm | IP Logged |
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**ma femme PARLAIT français avec nos enfants depuis trois ans et je COMPRENAIS presque tout CE qu'elle disait quand j'ai commencé l'immersion.
2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| microsnout TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member Canada microsnout.wordpress Joined 5469 days ago 277 posts - 553 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 40 of 46 31 December 2012 at 9:29pm | IP Logged |
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End of year log update
Well I guess I can't wait any longer to update my log by the end of the year. It is also the end of TAC 2012 and the end of my current immersion stay in Montreal. It is not however the end of the Super Challenge and I am still hopeful about that. I stayed 7 weeks in Montreal from Nov 1 to Dec 21 and then returned to Toronto for Christmas. I am actually back in Montreal for 2 days as I type this because I have been invited to a New Years party by 'une Québécoise' who I was dating here. I was originally thinking of staying a couple months in Trois-Rivières after New Years (Crazy, I know) partly because furnished apartments are dirt cheap there and it is very francophone but at least for January I will be looking after a friends house in Ottawa while he is in the hospital. I will have lots of new DVDs of Quebec TV series to watch while there and if I seek immersion I can always cross the bridge to Gatineau,QC. It is very much an optional immersion environment here in Montreal. This can be good or bad. You can always speak English a bit if your brain is tired - 100% immersion for me is kind of like reading without my reading glasses, I can do it but it gets tiring after a while. People do switch to English sometimes though, one day I failed to order coffee without hearing English in response but immediately after achieved the more complex task of interacting with a barber entirely in French. If learning French is your 'hobby' it is a great place. Imagine how much someone whose passion is chess would like it if they could play with almost anyone in the city at any time of the day or night, stranger or friend, even a quick game while waiting for a debit transaction to complete! I may move here soon... Super Challenge Status I am on track to reach 100 films but it will be difficult to read 100 books in 2013. I have been re-watching the first 50 episodes of 'Toute la vérité' before watching 10 new episodes because I have forgotten the details of plot threads left hanging. I know I could count this time but I don't want to count them twice. I have recently bought 7 new Quebec TV series on DVD so that will be more than enough. I think I will be happy with anything over 20 books. 78/100 Films 0/100 Books Movies "Continental, un film sans fusil" (2007) "Aurore" (2005) "À vos marques, Party!" (2007) "Le Vendeur" (2011) "Bon Cop Bad Cop" (2006) "Funkytown" (2011) "20h17 Rue Darling" (2003) "Polytechnique" (2009) "Starbuck" (2011) "Les doigts croches" (2009) "La grande séduction" (2003) "Le bonheur de Pierre" (2009) "Le dîner de cons" (1998) TV Series "Apparences" (10 episodes of 45 min) "19-2", Season 1 (10 Episodes of 45 min) "30 Vies", Season 1-2 (120 episodes of 22 min) "Toute la vérité", Seasons 1-3 (50 episodes of 45 min) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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