|
 |
Welsh profile | ||
Tags: Welsh | ||
 Language Learning Forum : Collaborative writing |  | |
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6010 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes  Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 17 of 25 12 November 2011 at 6:09pm | IP Logged | ||
There are some jobs in Wales which are only available to bilingual people and many more where having Welsh would be considered a benefit for applicants. So from a purely economic personal perspective, if you live and work in Wales there is some utility in having a high ability in Welsh. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| JamesBates Bilingual Triglot Newbie Pakistan Joined 6218 days ago 27 posts - 28 votes Speaks: English*, Hindi*, Arabic (Written) Studies: Persian, German | Message 18 of 25 12 November 2011 at 6:26pm | IP Logged | ||
|
I see! Thank you.
I wonder why there are jobs in Wales that require the ability to communicate in Welsh, given the fact that virtually the entire population of Wales is fluent in English. Here in Pakistan the Punjabi language has the most number of native speakers by far: 48% compared to just 8% for the national language, Urdu. However, Punjabi is not a requirement for any jobs anywhere, not even in the province of Punjab, which is the heartland of the Punjabi language. The reason is quite simple: the new generation of Punjabis is fluent in Urdu and does not need services in Punjabi. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ceffyl Dwfr Newbie United Kingdom Joined 4793 days ago 4 posts - 12 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, French, Welsh | Message 19 of 25 12 November 2011 at 8:56pm | IP Logged | ||
|
Just to clarify: you're taking an example from a country thousands of miles away from
Wales, and from your own personal experiences with languages also quite different from Welsh, and in a situation very different from Welsh, and you're applying them to the situation of the Welsh language and still wondering why you can't see any utility in learning Welsh? I think if, even now, you still can't make allowances for cultural differences if nothing else, then this is a fairly pointless conversation to be having. Good luck in your other languages, though. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| JamesBates Bilingual Triglot Newbie Pakistan Joined 6218 days ago 27 posts - 28 votes Speaks: English*, Hindi*, Arabic (Written) Studies: Persian, German | Message 20 of 25 13 November 2011 at 2:54am | IP Logged | ||
|
You're right; let's not talk about my personal experiences where I live with languages
very different from Welsh. I think you would be in a far better position to explain the utility of learning Welsh for others than I would, so please feel free to expound on it. Edited by JamesBates on 15 November 2011 at 2:54pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| JamesBates Bilingual Triglot Newbie Pakistan Joined 6218 days ago 27 posts - 28 votes Speaks: English*, Hindi*, Arabic (Written) Studies: Persian, German | Message 21 of 25 18 November 2011 at 5:45pm | IP Logged | ||
|
By the way, is your name Welsh? If so, may I ask how it is pronounced?
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ceffyl Dwfr Newbie United Kingdom Joined 4793 days ago 4 posts - 12 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, French, Welsh | Message 22 of 25 18 November 2011 at 6:19pm | IP Logged | ||
|
It is, yeah. It means 'water horse', which is a creature in Welsh mythology (and in
other Celtic countries - in Gàidhlig [Scottish Gaelic] it's called the Each Uisge, I believe). In Welsh it's pronounced 'Cehfil Duhvuhr' - the 'uh' sound is the closest I could get to the 'oo' sound in 'book'. Anyway, briefly, just to put all this to bed: Welsh is a living language. More than that, it is, in fact, a growing language. Whether its speakers also speak English or whether they also speak Tamil is completely irrelevant. A language is a language. If you want to learn a language that will be of use to you globally, if that's what you class as being the utility of a language, then clearly Welsh is not the language for you. I think we can all accept that and move on. As to 'learning a language out of fascination', this is something, I hope, all of us do. I think the reason I, and perhaps others, objected to your use of it is because in your usage it took on negative connotations, as if Welsh were an invalid language simply because it doesn't have enough first-language speakers (it should be pointed out that languages like Swahili have a very small number of first-language speakers, and yet have become the lingua franca throughout a great deal of Eastern Africa). As regards the utility of Welsh to me, personally: it is very hard to actually put into words. It is a part of where I live, and the UK as a whole, and learning the language pulls you into a whole other world and a whole new set of people that you might otherwise never have spoken to. The music, the folklore, the poetry (Welsh has unique forms of poetry, with unique rhyming schemes that I couldn't even tell you the name of, but hope to be able to some day), the heritage, the literature, the people...it's all there. Just the sound of Welsh is beautiful to me. Welsh advocates aren't promoting monoglottism in Welsh, they're happy to have both Welsh and English spoken in Wales, making Welsh an 'intelligent area' within the European Union, and perhaps even increasing job opportunities. Does that mean Welsh is useless? No, I don't think so. But perhaps we're just looking at it from angles far too removed from one another. I won't apologise for what I said, because I stand by it all, but I admit I was quite aggressive. It is pretty frustrating to have something you're very passionate about trampled upon by so many people so often. I hope, at least, you have got something from this. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| JamesBates Bilingual Triglot Newbie Pakistan Joined 6218 days ago 27 posts - 28 votes Speaks: English*, Hindi*, Arabic (Written) Studies: Persian, German | Message 23 of 25 18 November 2011 at 6:56pm | IP Logged | ||
|
Yeah, Swahili, like Urdu, is a very useful language, because it gives access to great
numbers of people who would otherwise be accessible through only their mother tongues. Imagine you wanted to climb the second-tallest mountain on earth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K2). You would have to learn either Chitrali, which is the language of the region of Chitral, or Urdu, which is understood by the majority of the population of Chitral. Or say you wanted to visit the beautiful Hunza valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunza_Valley). You would have to learn the local languages, namely Burushaski, Wakhi and Shina, or Urdu. Or say you wanted to visit the historic Lahore Fort, Badshahi Mosque, or Shalimar Gardens. You would have to learn Punjabi or...you guessed it, Urdu. The reason is quite simple: Urdu, despite being the mother tongue of no one in the aforementioned areas, is widely understood, obviating the need to learn the local languages. It must, however, be admitted that Urdu is of no use when it comes to eavesdropping in these areas. I know Wales is a beautiful place, but I fail to see why an English-speaking person who wanted to visit or even relocate there would want to learn Welsh. Even a non-English speaking immigrant to Wales would almost certainly choose to learn English, since English gives access to all of the population of Wales (and a few other countries, I might add), and ignore Welsh. But it is true that knowing Welsh gives one access to jobs that require a knowledge of it (though for the life of me I can't imagine why any job would require a knowledge of Welsh). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ceffyl Dwfr Newbie United Kingdom Joined 4793 days ago 4 posts - 12 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, French, Welsh | Message 24 of 25 18 November 2011 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | ||
|
Obviously, English would be the smart choice, particularly if one was locating to Wales
without speaking English as a first language. That's very true, and clearly, as you've pointed out, there are parallels to be drawn with Pakistan's situation. No-one is denying that a unifying language is useful. I don't deny it, and I support a unifying language in countries too (countries such as South Africa would probably work more cohesively if one language were chosen as the main 'official' language, rather than 11...). But it is entirely possible to support a unifying language without disparaging other languages. It's not a choice of 'English or Welsh'. It's a choice of both. If you were to move to Nefyn for example, in North-West Wales, speaking only English, yes, you could get by. But you would always be an outsider while you made no effort to even try learning the local language. What I personally don't understand is how someone such as yourself, who speaks and is studying quite a few languages, could have a problem with a distinct cultural identity and language. Why is it that Welsh or Chitrali or Burushaski or whatever HAS to be seen as a laborious and superfluous extra? Why can't you accept that they are a part of a country's heritage and that alone could stand as a reason for their being learnt and spoken? Seriously, I have said the same things so many times now, and so have you. If you don't and never will accept that minority languages can have a place in society too, then...why are we having this conversation? I can't rephrase myself any more to make the same point. We speak English. We have that unifying language. We also want to have our own distinct cultural language, which was here long before English arrived - why is that a problem? Does the idea of not learning a language in order to communicate with hundreds of millions of people seem that wrong to you that all minorities languages cannot be supported? I'm sure there are many people that support your point of view. I'm certain of it, in fact, so why not share it with them? This is one of very few places where it won't receive any support, and you know, I feel pretty stupid for putting in so much time to such a fruitless endeavour. Just finally: "eavesdropping". I don't like that word or its connotations. You're cheapening all smaller languages and cultures by using it and giving a heavily distorted view of what people actually use minority languages for. Believe it or not, we learn Welsh to speak it with one another, not to hunt down an elderly monoglot speaker and listen in to what they have to say about the butcher. Imagine if it was your language, your culture, or a culture you were deeply interested in, that was being maligned by people simply because it's too much effort for them to learn (which no-one is even asking you to do! Simply to live and let live). Or even from people to whom it makes no difference either way, but feel it is imperative to steamroll their way over for no good reason. How would YOU feel? Just think about that, just that, before you post another message repeating the same prejudices. If you don't understand it still, then fine. If you can't accept it either, then ok to that too. But please, don't waste my time, or your time, any more. Share your views with people who will agree. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
