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Latvian stands firm against Russian. | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5058 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes  Speaks: Russian* | Message 17 of 91 19 February 2012 at 7:42pm | IP Logged | ||
But if there are so many Russians, why aren't their language and culture considered as a part of the Latvian? In Russia, for example, all the people who were registered there in 1991 got the citizenship automatically. There were calls to evict all the Russians in Latvia those days. The naturalization started only in 1996. It's not normal when the third of the population does not have citizenship and it includes people who were born in the country. SSo, they lost their citizenship. The official status is needed to protect the language. Schools from closure, high education, the right to use the language everywhere. How could they learn the language? There were no free courses and many people did not have money. They have been insulted all the time. Then, the first Russians came there a thousand years ago. They have always been there since that. Chung, you have always been in favor of minority languages, why are you now against? Russian could get at least regional status, where it is spoken by the majority. Edited by Марк on 19 February 2012 at 8:28pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5058 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 18 of 91 19 February 2012 at 7:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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You may not know, but there is already a process of Welshification underway in Wales, and
learning the language is obligatory in Schools. English is not oppressed there. They do not close English schools. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kerateo Triglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 5648 days ago 112 posts - 180 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English, French Studies: Italian | Message 19 of 91 19 February 2012 at 11:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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My russian teacher comes from Latvia...
I just cant believe the stories that she has told me about this subject. The way the russian monolinguals are being treated in Latvia is a clear violation of human rights and european directives, I don't know why the European Union is not stopping this. It is a witch hunt. She told me one story about a guy in his 50s. One govertment "comission" comes to his work and discovers that he doesnt speak latvian, they give him 6 months to learn it (there is not assimil latvian...). Of course he cant and when the six months pass his boss is forced to fire him. The guy dies of a heart attack. This is how Bloddy revolutions start. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Merv Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5275 days ago 414 posts - 749 votes Speaks: English*, Serbo-Croatian* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 20 of 91 20 February 2012 at 12:04am | IP Logged | ||
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Mark: could you give us some more information on the history of Russians in Latvia?
For my part, I think there's no clear-cut hard and fast rule for this kind of question. There are a variety of questions that need to be answered: 1.) Since when has a minority lived in a country? When did the bulk of the population enter the region? 2.) What were the circumstances of their entry? Was this a brutal invasion/occupation? Traders invited by a king? Empty territory devastated by wars and settled by new incomers? 3.) How has this minority been treated by the government of the country in the past? Were they abused, persecuted, exterminated, etc.? 4.) Is the minority a demographic threat to the majority? By that I mean, is the birth or immigration/emigration rate very different between the two? This could lead to the majority losing its status as a majority and depending on relations between groups lead to persecution of what was once the majority by what was once a minority. For my part, given the history of Yugoslavia and the recurrent themes of self-determination vs. irredentism vs. rights based on history vs. rights based on demographics, I think these things need to be sorted out on a case- by-case basis. Sometimes borders are created in a rather arbitrary and artificial way and then we end up with a nightmare. For instance, Nagorno Karabakh was just given to Azerbaijan by Stalin as a way of playing two groups off each other, although there were no demographic or historical basis for doing so (rather quite the contrary) and as a result there was conflict, bloodshed, and an unjust situation. Other examples include Transnistria/Pridnistrovie and Crimea. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5058 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 21 of 91 20 February 2012 at 5:15am | IP Logged | ||
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1. Since a long time ago, but most of them came after the WWII. (ethnic Russians were 12
% of the population) They were hired by the government of the Latvian SSR which needed workers for industrialization. 2. It happened after the annexation of Latvia (which belonged to the Russian Empire before the revolution) by the Soviet Union in 1940 3 Before the war they were treated well 4 Both have very low birth rates. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Chronos Bilingual Diglot Newbie United States Joined 4664 days ago 9 posts - 24 votes Speaks: English*, Latvian* | Message 22 of 91 20 February 2012 at 5:29am | IP Logged | ||
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I believe that the Referendum being rejected was a good thing.
It is true that Russians make up a relatively substantial percentage of the population in Latvia; however, citizenship can be obtained by those ethnic Russians if they pass a Latvian language and history exam. You cannot say "because there are many Russians in Latvia, the Russian language/culture is Latvian language/culture". The reason there are so many Russians in Latvia is because of the illegal occupation of Latvia by the USSR and the Russification that followed it. The Russians were hired by the Latvian SSR to fuel the Soviet industrial machine (a machine that would go on to destroy ecosystems, pollute rivers, and more). This was the government that had been set up after Latvia was illegally occupied. The process of Russification attempted to erode and destroy Latvian culture and language. The Livonian dialect is near extinction, and the blame for that rests almost solely at the feet of the occupiers. The Soviets did a great deal of damage. In some ways it is no small miracle that the Latvian culture/language/song was able to survive the behemoth that was the Soviet machine. You must understand, that in Soviet times Latvians had very little to call their own. They had very little to cling to in terms of cultural identity. The Latvian language sustained those in Latvia (and the Diaspora) during the occupation. In many cases it was all they had left. Latvians treasure their language and their songs. If you undermine the language, you undermine the culture. Edited by Chronos on 20 February 2012 at 5:32am 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5058 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 23 of 91 20 February 2012 at 5:51am | IP Logged | ||
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(a machine that would go on to destroy ecosystems, pollute rivers, and more
Any industry is like that. What do you mean by Russification? The process of Russification attempted to erode and destroy Latvian culture and language. The Livonian dialect is near extinction, and the blame for that rests almost solely at the feet of the occupiers. Nonsense. Is the Livoinian dialect recognized and protected in modern Latvia? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| rivere123 Senior Member United States Joined 4832 days ago 129 posts - 182 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 24 of 91 20 February 2012 at 6:00am | IP Logged | ||
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My take on government language policies is that they should be flexible to whatever language(s) cater to the general public. I seriously doubt that having a situation similar to other multilingual countries would cause Latvia to gravitate towards Russia, or any other negative side effects.
I cannot think of a nation where bilingualism was her undoing, and if a few Latvian politicians think this threatens their way of life, they should realize that it's not their job to decide the culture of their country, just the governing. But perhaps I am looking at this from too American a point of view; the real problem is that Russian-Latvians are feeling picked on and Latvians don't want to gravitate towards Russia and have a Soviet Union relapse. Both have totally valid points, it's just that a country can survive bilingually, but one or the other will probably be phased out over time to no one's harm. This could work in either side's direction, but speaking Russian doesn't make you a spy for the Kremlin. In addition, I understand it's a mostly symbolic thing that people wouldn't want to learn Latvian, and this won't be overcome until Latvia becomes bilingual, otherwise it may just build up tension. In the end, I think Russo-Latvians should definitely learn Latvian but shouldn't be pushed into it and should be allowed to use Russian if they so choose. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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