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| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4826 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 49 of 133 12 August 2012 at 11:15pm | IP Logged | ||
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2012-08-11 Samstag|Sonnabend|Lørdag
Deutsch Listened to 2 chapters of Harry Potter 6, by way of "quality control". No silly voices (or not too silly) in those chapters anyway. Was able to follow it without the English or the German text, but I did write down some words for later listing and looking-up. Completed chapter 23 of "Unwiederbringlich", all 4 steps. Holk receives a letter from his brother-in-law basically telling him some home truths about the way he is treating his wife (leaving her while he swans off to Copenhagen and flirts with 2 beautiful younger women, and then writes home to tell her about it (well, not quite). Note that nothing has actually "happened" yet. Anyway, Christine is taking it badly and is ill (or making herself ill, as I think Holk sees it). It's now almost Christmas, and he's supposed to be going home in the New Year, although when exactly, I'm not sure. Not too much time left for anything to "happen". Not at this pace, anyway. :-) My sympathy is actually more with Holk, although it's not clear why he had to go to Denmark. His "duties" seem to consist of eating breakfast and dinner, making witty conversation, and ogling beautiful women. It seems to me that I'd be qualified for at least 2/3 of those jobs, although I suppose I'd need to get to C2 in German for the other one. Edit: - er, the court is in Denmark, so C2 in Danish! oooer...a tall order. Scandinavian Watched part 2 of the Wallander episode "sidetracked". It was extremely faithful to the book, except that I think one murder was changed and there is a significant change to the very end. This episode was made in 2001, and the ones that the BBC has shown before were later, and much less true to the books. I suspect that the earlier ones were made with hardcore Wallander book fans in mind, and the later ones more for the TV audience. The phrase "dumbed down" comes to mind, sadly. I recognised several words and phrases, including "for helvede" (which might have been "helvet(t)e" in the Swedish. I learned the Danish version from "The Bridge|Bron|Broen". As I think I mentioned before, this seems to be an edit (or possibly a co-production) for German TV (ZDF) (and probably for DVD), as German actors are mentioned in the credits, although the soundtrack we hear is mercifully Swedish. I presume that a German soundtrack was made, but thankfully, the original soundtrack is still available. I'm not sure if any more of these are coming up on BBC. I suspect not, because I'm pretty sure at least some of the older ones were made in the 1990s, i.e. before this one, and would they show them out of sequence? For one thing, the female police chief Holgersson was new in part 1 of this episode (which I think corresponds to the book), so that would be an obvious change if they showed the earlier ones now. But stranger things have happened. I'm thankful to have at least seen this one. I would like to see the one with South African locations though, whose name escapes me temporarily; it has "lioness" in the title. Had a discussion with our daughter, who is here on a visit, about her language ambitions, which are quite ambitious(!). A Scandinavian language is on the hitlist, although not at the top, and we got to discussing Norwegian & Danish, and I later played her some of my TYS CDs of both languages to compare and contrast. I noticed that my copy of "TYS Complete Danish" claims to take you to B2. I suppose an extremely diligent student might make it using this course, but I think they would still have to make a point of exposing themselves to a lot of native material in addition. My copy of "TYS Norwegian" does not make any claim. It was bought a couple of years ago. Perhaps the repackaged "Complete Norwegian" will make a similar claim. I think pinches of salt are in order. I also noticed that a lot of spellings are not as identical between Danish and Norwegian as I had been led to believe. It wouldn't be a problem, I'm sure, especially in context. It's easy to see that "Jeg hedder..." and "Jeg heter..." mean the same, for example. Neverthless, there were more differences than I'd expected, although no doubt far more similarities. Edited by montmorency on 15 August 2012 at 3:29pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4826 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 50 of 133 15 August 2012 at 12:02am | IP Logged | ||
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2012-08-12-13 Sonntag-Montag|Sondag-Mandag
Dansk Have now joined the Consistency Challenge. I will try to learn at least least 10 words each day and/or do 1 hour from the TYSCD. I can "cheat" by watching a Scandinavian film or TV episode, although there probably will not be all that many of those. "Borgen" is coming to an end, for example. I calculated that there were 1370 Danish words in the vocabulary lists. At 10 words/day this would take 137 days or say 4½ months. (Up to the end of the year, say). Well, I'm currently on unit 7 (out of 18), so it would take somewhat less than that if I could keep up 10 words / day on average (properly learned, that is, not half-learned :-) ). I easily exceeded my 10 words today, but will I retain all of those? And some days I might be pushed to try to learn even 10, depending upon what else is going on. Hopefully the Consistency Challenge will help me to at least attempt the minimum 10/day. And hopefully if I do find I'm retaining words at at least this level, this will encourage me to get on and finish the book, with which I was beginning to get jaded (as I knew I would). I'd hoped to have started L-R-ing a "real book" by now, but for various reasons have not. I picked one of the vocabulary pages at the end at random and counted the words I knew or could guess with confidence, and got a score of 28/62 or about 45%. But that doesn't mean that I know all the genders, plurals, or past-tenses/ past-participles, so there is no room for complacency. Equally, there is no room for despair, either! :-) Noticed that one of the "cast" of the CDs has almost the same name (forename and surname) as my wife! Spooky or what? Later, did some close listening and reading from the CD and book for units 4-7, and some speaking. Listening out particularly for pronunciation of "æ". Deutsch Started chapter 24 of "Unwiederbringlich": reading English, then reading German. Edited by montmorency on 15 August 2012 at 3:29pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4826 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 51 of 133 15 August 2012 at 10:17am | IP Logged | ||
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2012-08-14 Dienstag|Tirsdag
Deutsch Completed chapter 24 of "Unwiederbringlich": Listening to German while reading English, then listening to and reading the German, underlining pencil in hand. Some tricky language here. The king (a real historical figure, the nephew of Fontane's fictitious princess) has arrived at Frederiksborg, but is keeping himself busy and keeping out of the princess's way for the time being. Holk finally replies to Arne (whose letter had been self-serving as well as critical) in an equally self-serving and defensive manner, probably not likely to help his cause. Still nothing has "happened" between Holk and Ebba, so far as I can tell, unless Fontane has dropped a subtle hint that I have missed, which is not unlikely. Dansk Not language work, but bought a map of Denmark. I can now see more clearly the area around Glücksburg where Holk comes from, and of course plan trips to Denmark which may or may not come off. I'd like to take the ferry to Esbjerg one day, and have a cycle (or cycle+train tour). Glücksberg is a long way from København, and looks as though it would have been a difficult journey in those days. If by sea, then quite a long way round, or even through the intervening islands. I'm not sure how well developed the railways were at that time, but they couldn't have got there all the way by train at that time (I don't think). Also, how did the post travel? There seems to be a reliable postal service between Glücksberg and København. Did word-listing from Unit 7 (again, comfortably more than my C.C. minimum). There seem to be a lot of words ("en masse ord"!) in this unit, so I have not done all the words in this unit yet. Then read and listened to the dialogues in units 6-8. I've realised that one actor in the "cast" speaks a lot faster than the others. This may be realistic, but it is a bit harsh on us beginners. Last night I watched again a video of Prof. Arguelles reading a Danish text, and was impressed how "Danish" he sounded, at least to my ears. He didn't mention the glottal stop specifically, but I guess he was doing it. For the purposes of the Consistency Challenge, I will only allow myself 1 "cheat" per week (i.e. watching a Scandinavian film or similar). Of course I can watch more than one, but I still only get 1 day off the regular work (if I want to take it that is!). (I think the "rules" would allow 3 days, but I know that might be the thin end of the wedge for me). CC days=2. Edited by montmorency on 15 August 2012 at 3:31pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4826 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 52 of 133 16 August 2012 at 2:24am | IP Logged | ||
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2012-08-15 Mittwoch|Onsdag
Dansk Warning: Lower down there is a Spoiler to "Borgen", Series 1 I was dreaming at least partly about (if not in) Danish. The verb "trænge (til)" kept coming up, and I could not think what it meant (= "to need"). Another forum member was somehow involved. I won't mention the name, as it could be misconstrued. :) Completed words in unit 7. Some slightly trickier grammar, but I'm covering grammar on another pass. This pass is about hoovering up as much vocabulary as possible. Dialogues from units 7-9. Unit 9 seems to have a fair amount of unfamiliar & hard-to-guess vocabulary. Fru M. and I were looking at the map of Denmark, and a map of Germany that shows part of Denmark, and she was reminiscing about a trip she'd made when she was single and fancy-free (early 1970s probably), by train from (probably) Calais, through France, Belgium, Germany, all the way to Puttgarden, thence by ferry to Rødby in Denmark, and then on to Copenhagen, all on the same train - the train went on to the ferry. I would like to think it still did, but somehow I doubt it. The boat-train from London to Calais used to do the same thing, but that was before my time, or at least before my time as an international traveller. Although it's better in many ways now we have the Chunnel, you still can't make long through journeys from London, having to change trains in Paris or Brussels. Roll on the day when Deutsche Bahn start running services to London, as has been mooted for several years, and I had heard was going ahead, but I'm not getting my hopes up. Warning: Spoiler to "Borgen", Series 1 follows: Watched 10/10 of "Borgen". Birgitte makes a brilliant speech at the opening of Parliament (or brilliantly cynical - Kaspar wrote it), and is aclaimed. But everything else in her life has fallen apart: her marriage; her relationship with her children; she's been forced to sack her old friend and colleague Bent; and now the creepy "Sir Humphrey"* senior civil servant has managed to sack the lovely Sanne, her "inefficient", but sweet secretary, who was able to find time for Birgitte's kids when Birgitte couldn't. And to rub salt in the wound, Kaspar dumped her (Sanne) after getting her hopes up romantically. * ("Sir Humphrey" was a manipulative senior civil servant in a long-running UK political comedy of yester-year). Katrine, the feisty TV anchor has had her final blow- up with Torben, and resigned. The irony in having to sack Bent is that this is exactly how Bent told her from the outset how she would have to be, and this is not lost on Bent. She says to him, in what seems to be a "goodbye" scene: "I did what I had to do", and he replies: "Yes, that's what Prime Ministers do". She has finally become a Prime Minister (and possibly stopped being a human being). CC days=3. Miscellaneous I added Old English to my hitlist. I've always been interested in the Germanic origins of English, and did start studying this a few years ago as part of an English course, and it would be nice to take it further. I suppose this interest in the Germanic origins and near neighbours of English is why I am interested in Scandinavian and Dutch. I'm not sure if I'll ever get around to tackling Icelandic though (if even Norwegians find it tough). Deutsch Listened to 2 chapters of HP 7. Quite funny to hear "Kim Korn" (the appalling journalist) speaking German with what sounded like an American accent; not very German anyway. Giving "Unwiederbringlich" a rest today, partly as I have a headache, and it needs a bit of concentration.However, on a whim listened to part of "Das philosophische Radio" from WDR. Will listen to the rest tomorrow. Edited by montmorency on 16 August 2012 at 2:23pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4826 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 53 of 133 17 August 2012 at 11:44am | IP Logged | ||
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2012-08-16 Donnerstag|Torsdag
Dansk Words from unit 8 (and plenty of crunchy ones to get your teeth into). Listened to dialogues in unit 8. Some of these were difficult enough that I really need to study more of the the vocab in the whole unit carefully, then listen again; much less scope for guessing in those particular dialogues. CC days=4. I think I dreamed about Danish again. Must be the influence of the Consistency Challenge. Also, I seem to be learning how to speak it in that strangulated, sub- Arguelles voice. I'm not sure if it includes any kosher "glottal stops" or not, but it sounds moderately authentic to my non-native ear. And I'm starting to think or talk to myself in English, Danish style, like my old Danish friend B.A.. Deutsch Listened to the rest of Das philosophische Radio (with guest Klaus Michael Kodalle, Philosopher, from Jena, v. interesting for me). General Well just when I "gave in" and started counting words, people are now giving evidence to show how useless this exercise is! :) I think though, a lot depends on where you are with the language. When beginning, I think it's nice to have a bit of evidence that the methods you are using are working. Plus when you know almost no vocabulary, almost any new words (especially from a beginner's course) are going to help. OTOH, when I think that TYSCD has probably at most 1400 Danish words, its promise of getting you to B2 is, er "ambitious". Although it's not usually recommended, I find that I want to know the meaning of every new word I come across (and its variations, and maybe its derivation), whether it is likely to be "useful" or not. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4826 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 54 of 133 18 August 2012 at 4:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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2012-08-17 Freitag|Fredag
Dansk Completed the words from unit 8. There are approximately 100 new words in this unit, which is quite challenging. The dialogues include a sort of argument between the 2 main characters, followed by almost a philosophical statement by one of them. I'm not sure if this course really equips you to deal with that sort of thing, but it's an attempt to get beyond tourist-type phrases. CC days=5. 10 more units left. The words per unit increases in the next chapter, and stays high, but tails off towards the end. Looking briefly ahead, quite a few words are "gifts" from German or English, so that's good. If we said 3 days per unit, that could mean completing the book in 30 days. Call that mid-September? Deutsch Listened to another mp3 of "Das philosofische Radio" from WDR, this one from 08.06.2012. I had forgotten how good the WDR podcasts were (not just DfR). They are a great resource for learners and speakers of German, and I highly recommend them. Go to www.wdr.de and look for "podcasts" on the left, then look for the "podcast überblick". I thought they used to keep them available for longer, but in any case, there is plenty of material there. This time there were 2 studio guests and several people phoned in, with a variety of accents. Sometimes people speak slowly when they are thinking a point out, and sometimes they speed up when they warm to their theme, so it keeps you on your toes, but that is no bad thing. Would I say this is the same as listening to normal conversation? Perhaps not quite, but they are certainly not stuffy. One way of looking at it is maybe that they bridge a gap between audiobook versions of reasonably serious books, and everyday conversation. You get interaction, spontaneous language (no doubt from prepared subject matter), and sometimes quite fast language, and sometimes a variety of accents; and a lot to think about. Not feeling 100% and not quite in mood for Fontane, so listened to a podcast from a different WDR series("Montalk" - spot the Denglisch) of an interview with Daniel Glattauer, author of "Gut gegen Nordwind" (a book I'd planned to read last year, but forgot about). V. interesting. I hadn't realised he was Austrian. His accent was noticeable, but not a problem. Very distinctive "ei" dipthongs, a bit more open than "standard" German; sort of leaned-into, so that "ein" (etc) sounds a bit like "main" (English pronunciation). Also started to listen to another DfR, with a Klaus Mainzer from T.U. München, talking about the relationship between people and machines, more specifically robots of the future. He spoke very clearly, and not in a Bavarian accent. I wonder where he comes from? I wondered if he'd spent time in anglophone countries and anglicised his German to some extent. ~Later: felt better, and read in English the short chapter 25, and part of 26 of "Unwiederbringlich" in bed before falling asleep. There is a story about how he came by the title of this book, which I will recount at the end. Edited by montmorency on 18 August 2012 at 4:17pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Flarioca Heptaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5880 days ago 635 posts - 816 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Esperanto, French, EnglishC2, Spanish, German, Italian Studies: Catalan, Mandarin | Message 55 of 133 18 August 2012 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | ||
Thanks a lot! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4826 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 56 of 133 19 August 2012 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | ||
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2012-08-18 Samstag|Sonnabend|Lørdag
Scandinavisk With the excitement of the Olympics, I'd forgotten that there might be another Lassgård-vintage "Wallander", and - praise-be to the BBC - there was, and still time to download, which I'm doing now, for later viewing. What's more, it's in 4 parts, 2 last week, 2 this week (I think). The story is "The fifth woman" (Femte Kvinne? - I'll check later). Dansk Dived into word-listing chapter 9 with gusto. There is some even more tricky language here, and I know I'll have to come back to it, of course. Interesting to see that there are English-style seperable verbs in Danish; it doesn't surprise me, but good to have it confirmed, e.g. "lad ud (til)" - to let out (a house) (to) someone. Also interesting: "hede" = "heath". They might even pronounce it a bit like "heather", but there again, they might not. :-) CC days = 6 I've been putting off learning to count properly. Like the Norwegian piss-taking video, I'm putting my hands over my ears and saying: "you're counting in Danish? - Sorry, I can't hear you. la la la...". But this has to stop. And I've thought of a brilliant(?) way of doing it. I'll learn one number each day and put it in here, and also my CC log entry. I thought of making it the same as my CC number, but it's easy to see why that won't work: if I miss a CC day, I've got to reset to 0, and that way, I'd never learn to count! :) So, værsego: My first number is 1 = en|et. There Monty you big wuss. That wasn't so difficult now was it? And I'd better throw in 0 = nul. So: nul, en. Piece of æblekage! :-) And I'd better do the ordinals: første. No idea how you say the "zeroth" though. nulte? I'll mentally count from 0 to the current number each day, but not write them down as that would be tedious. Danish difficult? Pah! :-))) ~Later: Been rediscovering Copenhagencast.com and now downloaded them all (only had a few before), and there is one that does the numbers (which reminded me about "et" for neuter, and always with the time). They are really good. I was always intending to get the transcripts, and now I will. I still will finish TYS, but this will be a big help with the spoken language. I've been getting bored listening to the TYS actors over and over again, so Louise makes a nice change. She's a big fan of Anki (and has learned 400 Kanji symbols with it - probably more by now, as that was some time ago). I'm a wordlist man myself, but the point is to make sure one does repetition, whichever way one goes about it. Scandinavian Watched episodes 3&4 of "Wallander" (The Fifth Woman) on BBC4 with my wife. Didn't pick up many words, but great episodes, and mostly close to the book, what I remember of it. But that seems to be the last one on BBC for now. Still. Can't complain; we've had 6 episodes recently (from 2001 and 2002) based on 2 stories (books). This was another one with German credits and cast members credited (in addition to the Swedish ones),presumably the actors who provided the German dubbing, although we heard the Swedish audio. Tak for det! Deutsch Listened to the rest of the DfR podcast. Edited by montmorency on 20 August 2012 at 12:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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