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English - a Scandinavian language? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6582 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 17 of 28 04 December 2012 at 7:32am | IP Logged | |||||
If "garpgenetiv" is the "bilen hans" or "bilen sin" construction mentioned, then yeah, it's there in a couple of Swedish dialects. I grew up at the fringe of the Värmland dialectal area, but further in I think people use it, or at least used to. The Värmland dialect is heavily influenced by Norwegian. It can also famously be heard in the great Swedish movie "Ronja rövardotter", where Birk calls Ronja "Söstra mi" = "Systern min". Edited by Ari on 04 December 2012 at 7:42am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6582 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 18 of 28 04 December 2012 at 7:47am | IP Logged | |||||
That said, English DOES have a somewhat similar construction. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6703 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 19 of 28 04 December 2012 at 10:30am | IP Logged | |||||
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Yes, and it uses "of" (in the Guns and Roses title abbreviated to "o'"). But I don't know any English pseudo-genitival construction with "to".
In German "zu" is used in names for the nobility - as for instance in the name of a certain "Richard Casimir Karl August Robert Konstantin Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg". Considering that this thread is about English constructions I have moved further comments about German naming conventions to my log. Edited by Iversen on 04 December 2012 at 12:13pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4707 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 20 of 28 04 December 2012 at 10:36am | IP Logged | |||||
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The "Hans zijn auto" type construction in Dutch is used particularly if it's a name
ending in an 's' to avoid the Hans' auto pronunciation problem, so they say Hans zijn auto instead. It's also very dialectal in some areas. I think it's common in the south, but I'm not sure. I have heard it used quite often in any case. Edited by tarvos on 04 December 2012 at 10:37am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5453 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 21 of 28 04 December 2012 at 9:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
Garpegenitiv is the form with "sin" (Ola sin bil), not the form with "hans" (bilen hans Ola).
"Søstra mi" is a typical example of the feminine form in Norwegian (as opposed to "søsteren min" or "min søster"). Do the Värmland dialects have a three gender system with masculine, feminine and neuter? 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5453 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 22 of 28 04 December 2012 at 9:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
It is often used in Norwegian for exactly the same reason. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| MixedUpCody Senior Member United States Joined 5256 days ago 144 posts - 280 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin | Message 23 of 28 05 December 2012 at 3:37am | IP Logged | |||||
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Historical linguistics isn't my area, but we discussed English origin briefly on one of my linguistics classes. This is from an Old English story:
se man thone kyning sloh the.NOM man the.ACC king slew ‘The man slew the king.’ This seems very far from modern English for a number of reasons. The SOV word order interest me the most, as it is a dramatic shift from our current SVO in modern English. I don't know much about Scandinavian languages, but it seems like with the amount of change from Old to Modern English, you could probably make an argument either way. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Surtalnar Tetraglot Groupie Germany Joined 4396 days ago 52 posts - 67 votes Speaks: German*, Latin, English, Spanish Studies: Arabic (Written), Arabic (classical) | Message 24 of 28 05 December 2012 at 5:17am | IP Logged | |||||
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English isn't Scandinavian, because the Vikings didn't kill the West Germanic Old English language.
What's more possible is that English is a creole of West Germanic and North Germanic, because both languages mixed up and neither of the languages got replaced. Edited by Surtalnar on 05 December 2012 at 5:18am 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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