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Tiktok’s TAC 2013 Estonian Log jäŋe/ledús | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| kujichagulia Senior Member Japan Joined 4848 days ago 1031 posts - 1571 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Portuguese | Message 17 of 36 14 February 2013 at 1:30am | IP Logged |
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Excellent log! Good luck with your Estonian studies.
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| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5167 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 18 of 36 14 February 2013 at 5:05pm | IP Logged |
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Looking forward to seeing your progress with Estonian! It's on my list for future studies.
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| Tedmac278 Triglot Newbie United States Joined 4301 days ago 23 posts - 38 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Estonian | Message 19 of 36 20 February 2013 at 7:25pm | IP Logged |
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Hi Tiktok!
I've recently taken a serious interest in learning Estonian so I will be following your log closely. I actually left a question in another Estonian thread yesterday regarding learning materials. I have an older copy of the TY Estonian, but without the cds. I recently ordered the newer version of TY complete Estonian (to get the cds) and was wondering if you've seen it and might know the difference between the two? Either way, I'm excited about starting the course! I've been thinking about trying starting a log, as you're doing, to help me through the "dark days" of learning which are sure to come. Obviously I'm new to this forum so how do these logs typically work? Palju aitäh!!! 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Tiktok Pro Member United Kingdom Joined 5137 days ago 29 posts - 40 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Estonian Personal Language Map | Message 20 of 36 03 April 2013 at 9:39pm | IP Logged |
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Estonian Update
kujichagulia and Expugnator - thank you for you kind comments and my apologies for not acknowledging them sooner :) Tedmac278 - Sorry, I have read about the TY Estonian book but do not have a copy of it myself. As for learning logs - this is my first and (quite) new one so I am none too sure how they work either. I looked through quite a few before I started this one and there seem to be as many styles of log as there are people writing them :) As for Estonian - once you get your brain used to the grammar system it is a very interesting language. If I could give you one tip, it would be to listen as much as possible as early as possible to get the sound of the language working in your head - my poor listening skills are currently holding me back on progressing further as I can speak Estonian to some extent but mostly do not understand the reply on first hearing. As for my Estonian progress - learning has been severely curtailed for the last 5 weeks through spending more time at work than at home. Thankfully, the busy season is nearly over for me so I should soon get back to my normal study routine this weekend. During my enforced hiatus, my study has been limited to reading bits and pieces of newspapers, internet news and the odd snippet from textbooks as well as talking to myself in Estonian whilst communting. Unfortunately, nothing which feels like progress and more to do with keeping my language from going into decay. My study intentions for the next few weeks will be focussed on refreshing my vocabulary, practicing speaking and watching Elu Keset Linna on TV3 (see resources post near the beginning of the log) as I travel to Estonia again on the 19th for a two week break and want to get some more speaking practice in while I am there. Edited by Tiktok on 03 April 2013 at 10:01pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5167 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 21 of 36 03 April 2013 at 9:50pm | IP Logged |
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I regret that I'd have to take another language (Papiamento) before Estonian unlike planned, but it was for travel purposes and also because a creole based on my native language and on English is much simpler. I wouldn't be able to start Estonian now anyway, but when I do (maybe next year) I'll be glad to have learned from your experience, Tiktok.
The Estonian grammar seems fascinating, and also the sound of the language once you get used. I know that the partitive is very often used and it doesn't have a direct equivalent, but most of the other cases seem straightfoward. They call cases in Finno-ugric languages which could be regarder as postpositions as we have in Georgian. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Tiktok Pro Member United Kingdom Joined 5137 days ago 29 posts - 40 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Estonian Personal Language Map | Message 22 of 36 18 April 2013 at 10:14pm | IP Logged |
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Estonian Update
A better two weeks for studies now that my work has been back to normal. I have watched 4 episodes of Elu Keset Linna including one episode which I watched on repeat until I got around 90% of the dialog (5 repeats which was about all I could take :) ) - the remaining 10% was masked by background sounds in the episode making it impossible for me to decipher at this point. I spent some time refreshing several grammer points by reviewing the lessons in my textbook, practiced some writing to reinforce the examples and asked questions about specific points during an online chat with one of my Estonian friends. Some specific points I wanted to ask were for particular phrases "one of them" = "üks nendest" or "üks neist", "one of these/those" = "üks sellest" jne (ja nii edasi or and so on). To improve my spoken Estonian I have been doing a lot of self talking while commuting to and from work. I tend to talk about everything that I see as I am driving. I find that reading out every number that I see in Estonian and calling out the colours of passing cars is very beneficial for speeding up my thinking in Estonian especially in terms of the numbers which now come quite easily to mind. I find telephone numbers on signs to be very good practice but there are numbers everywhere on the roads if you care to look. I have also noticed that my hearing comprehension of spoken numbers is very much improved after only a few weeks practice. A further experiment I have been doing this last two weeks is to read aloud from my textbooks and newspapers. Previously when I have tried this, I have found that the meaning of what I was reading was not registering with my brain other than the immediate word I was pronouncing. After several sessions of 15 minutes at a time I now notice that the whole sentence is being retained in my mind for meaning and this is improving my listening comprehension quite markedly. On my previous visits to Estonia I have noticed that I quite often could not remember the beginning part of a sentence when someone was speaking to me which required several repeats on the speakers part before I got the whole sentence. I shall soon see (see below) whether I can detect any improvement here. Other than the above, I have done quite a lot of reading this last two weeks including newspaper articles, fiction, my textbook passages and online news. After my enforced study hiatus, I feel as though I have made some good progress with this period of study. Thankfully, this renewed study effort has come just at the right time as I fly off to Estonia tomorrow for two weeks. I intend to get in as much speaking practice as possible during this visit and have asked my Estonian friends to assist by having Estonian only hours at periods throughout the day. I will write about how that works out in my next update when I return. Previously when I have returned from Estonia, the language has been alive in my head only to slowly die away over the intervening weeks. This year though, due to work schedules, my Summer holiday to Estonia will only be 7 weeks after I return from my forthcomign two week trip so I expect to be able to maintain and improve my Estonian even more than previously. Now a little Estonian for a change as this is an Estonian log - the following passage is a little about my holiday. Ma lähen homme Eestisse. Vara hommikul homme, sõidan ma autoga Manchester'i lennujaama. Ma lendan Manchesterist Kopenhaagenisse ja sealt Tallinnasse. Olen Eestis kaks nädalat. Eestis on mul mitu sõpra ja ma loodan et ma saan neid kõiki näha. Peale seda kavatsen ma kaks päeva eestis ringi sõita auto ja rongiga. Kui olen Tallinas tagasi, ma tahan väga hea metal bandist Meshuggah ka näha. Ma tulen tagasi Inglismaale Esmaspäeval kuuendal Mail. Arvan et ma ei taha tööle minna kui olen Inglismaal tagasi. I have written that passage without referring to a textbook so it may contain errors - any Estonian speaker reading this is more than welcome to comment on my efforts :) Edited by Tiktok on 18 April 2013 at 10:23pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Tiktok Pro Member United Kingdom Joined 5137 days ago 29 posts - 40 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Estonian Personal Language Map | Message 23 of 36 22 April 2013 at 11:30am | IP Logged |
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Estonian Update - from Tallinn
Day 3 in Estonia and my Estonian is getting a very welcome boost. I spent Saturday evening with the extended family of one of my Estonian friends playing an Estonian board game (similar to trivial pursuit but all based on knowledge of Estonia) and drinking vodka. After insisting that everyone present should speak mostly Estonian, it was one of the best learning evenings I have had in all my visits here. Firstly, reading aloud the game questions in Estonian whilst 7 Estonians listened intently to my occasionally mangled pronunciations and offered tips on exactly which parts of words I needed to pay attention to. Specifically, remembering that ä and a have very different sounds (ä is short like a in cat and a is long like a in father) , keeping the stress on the first syllable (I sometimes revert to English stress with unfamiliar words) and remembering that double vowels are much longer in Estonian than in English. Secondly, listening to the questions in Estonian and then thinking of something in reply which was usually a variation on "I have no idea" - playing a board game in another language is somewhat challenging to say the least. I did get a few questions correct on Estonian geography though :) Thirdly, trying to follow the general conversation and join in where possible - I managed quite well after a shot or two had loosened my tongue. The really interesting part for me was when I woke up early the following morning and I found myself with a brain full of Estonian rather than English and then couldn't get back to sleep as my brain must have been excited by the novelty of it. Speaking in Estonian then went much better for the remainder of the day as I found the right words/phrases coming automatically. I am looking forward to the next two weeks now to see how far I can progress. A couple of learning points regarding modern spoken Estonian which differs from the grammar described in Tuldava's Estonian Textbook : Present Conditional Tense Corresponds with English expressions containing "would" and is the present stem followed by "-ksi" and the personal ending in written Estonian. The negative form adds "-ks" to the present stem along with the negative particle ei. Written grammar :- Kas sa tahaksid kohvi? = Would you like/want coffee? Ei, ma tahaksin teed = No, I would like/want tea. Ei tahaks. - I would not like/want. In spoken Estonian, the positive and negative forms are now generally the same :- Kas (sa) tahaks kohvi? Ei, ma tahaks teed. Numbers 20 and above Written grammar :- Kakskümmend kolm = 23. Kolmkümmend neli - 34. Viiskümmend = 50. In less formal spoken Estonian the kümmend is shortened to "kend" :- Kakskend kolm = 23. Kolmkend neli = 34. Viiskend = 50. Igatahes, ilm täna on ilus ja lähen ma nüüd teletornisse. Head aega! Edited by Tiktok on 22 April 2013 at 11:40am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Tiktok Pro Member United Kingdom Joined 5137 days ago 29 posts - 40 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Estonian Personal Language Map | Message 24 of 36 07 May 2013 at 11:33pm | IP Logged |
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Estonian Update
Nii, olen Inglismaal jälle ja mul oli väga hea puhkus. Kui ma olin Eestis ma sain kirjutada, lugeda, rääkida ja kuulda Eesti Keeles. Minu kuulamine on aeglaselt veel aga mitte nii paha nüüd seepärast, et ma sain aru palju millest inimesed rääkisid. Samamoodi sain ma Eesti keeles rääkida mitu korda minu sõpradega. Lähen ma Eesti jälle pärast kuue nädala ja arvan ma et õppimine töötab väga hea sellepärast, et praegu mul on palju rohkem eesti keel minu peas. The above is written directly here without any reference to learnign materials so may be a little clunky - corrections are most welcome! Back in the UK and as well as a thoroughly enjoyable two weeks, learning went very well. This was my first visit to Estonia where I was comfortable speaking mainly because my hearing in Estonian decided to start working in a more reliable manner. Several days of exposure to pure Estonian conversation works wonders it seems :) I am back in the Uk for 6 weeks now and intend to do some extensive study to keep what I have in my head right now alive and build on the progress I have made in the last two weeks. Having been tinkering with Estonian for some time, it is very pleasing to see some tangible results of all the book work and practice. I intend to do a mixture of listening comprehension to speed up my processing of the spoken language as well as some more lengthy written exercises to get my language production up to speed. I am very much looking forward to my next visit! Finally, most amusing new idiom - the Estonian equivalent of the English "it's raining cats and dogs / stairrods" is "Sajab nagu oavarrest" which translates as "it's raining like from a beanstalk" which I guess makes about as much sense as our cats and dogs / stairrods does! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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