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From Start To Finnish (Personal TAC) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Henkkles Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4254 days ago 544 posts - 1141 votes  Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: Russian | Message 9 of 22 09 December 2013 at 7:01pm | IP Logged | ||
Possession is done by putting the possessor in the adessive case, namely -llA + on + nominative if singular, (plural) partitive in plural (prototypically) For example I have a car. Minulla on auto. Translates directly as; at me (/at my possession) is a car. Minulla on paljon kirjoja. I have many (lit. much) books. In Finnish you can derive other verbs from basic verbs; puhua - to speak puhella - to speak casually, habitually puhuttaa - to make speak Puhelen äitini kanssa. <- this is how you'd say it. I am in the habit of speaking with my mother/I'm just casually speaking with my mother/etc. Edited by Henkkles on 09 December 2013 at 7:08pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Tollpatchig Senior Member United States Joined 4008 days ago 161 posts - 210 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Maltese | Message 10 of 22 09 December 2013 at 10:07pm | IP Logged | ||
Hey that explains something I came across. When I was using a Finnish Anki set one the verbs on the list was alkaa which it said meant to begin or to start, then it showed me another verb that was similar: aloittaa which it said ment to start, begin: to go ahead. I wanted to know what the different 'cause I thought it had a different connotation (think wissen and kennen) and Wikionary listed aloittaa as a related term and I couldn't figure out what the difference is, until you posted this. If puhuttaa means to make speak (as in forcing someone to speak against their will?) then does aloittaa mean to make someone start something? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 11 of 22 10 December 2013 at 2:16am | IP Logged | ||
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No, alkaa means to start as intransitive (the concert started) and aloittaa means transitive, ie that someone begins something (Nightwish started the concert)*. With verbs you use (hän) alkaa tehdä but (hän) aloittaa tekemistä/tekemisen/any noun that fits (aloitan puhelun).
*only something abstract, like starting your learning etc. something that really begins when you start it, so to say. Like, because you can't just say "*the car began" (unlike a concert etc), you know you need a different verb. Starting a car or a computer/gadget is käynnistää. starting a sports player would be something else and probably not as quick and simple as in English. Edited by Serpent on 10 December 2013 at 2:19am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Tollpatchig Senior Member United States Joined 4008 days ago 161 posts - 210 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Maltese | Message 12 of 22 10 December 2013 at 3:01am | IP Logged | ||
Looks like I'm gonna have to really learn some grammatical terms with Finnish. I've been coasting through German without really learning what they mean and refer to. I feel so simple. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 13 of 22 10 December 2013 at 6:55am | IP Logged | ||
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Heh but I described the difference... was it too complicated? In a way you indeed force the start, but only with things, not with people. -ttaa is like get. for example syöttää: feed, get someone to eat (by default not force). aloittaa, get something to start.
To confuse you further, sometimes alkaa is okay as transitive :/ however, if you start something, it's never a mistake to use aloittaa, even if alkaa is possible. For now stick to the core difference between them, and then you'll learn where you can also use alkaa. Some things just make sense when you see them in context. Grammar terms can help a lot, but I can't say they're an absolute must. You can formulate them in your own terms and ask for confirmation... kinda like what you did now. Just avoid generalizing too much. Instead of thinking the wiktionary was wrong, think whether the English word has multiple meanings or not. Also think of how German handles it. Edited by Serpent on 10 December 2013 at 7:02am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Tollpatchig Senior Member United States Joined 4008 days ago 161 posts - 210 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Maltese | Message 14 of 22 10 December 2013 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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Oh no I understood the explanation. I was just saying that its something I think I wanna work on especiall.
since Finnish has cases I've never heard of. I picked a hell of a challenge. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Tollpatchig Senior Member United States Joined 4008 days ago 161 posts - 210 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Maltese | Message 15 of 22 19 December 2013 at 5:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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Terve! Mitä kuuluu?
Ok so I know I said that I was going to try to not do so much written work in Finnish but I'm actually understanding more that way (go figure). I've been working through my paperback copy of Beginner's Finnish and so far I'm getting it and not getting it. Ways I'm getting it: I can count! Minä olen kaksikymmentäkolme vuotta vanha. I understand why we have consonant gradation and can even remember some of the changes! I understand the concept of vowel harmony! I know a few basic verbs and can conjugate them! Ways I'm NOT getting it: I can't spell worth a damn. I have no idea how I'm supposed to pronounce the Y or the Ö. Just how long am I supposed to hold the double vowels?! I have a hard time remembering vocab. What order do the words go in again? The R rolling is a lost cause. Then again, I'm only on the 2nd Chapter so I figure it can only get better from there. I'm still a bit miffed that I can't form sentences on my own. It feels like I have to learn all the cases before I can say anything worthwhile. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 16 of 22 21 December 2013 at 12:40am | IP Logged | ||
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Which cases do you know? You certainly don't need them all to say meaningful things, but any sentence with two nouns will require two different cases (unless the nouns are connected by "and"), including the nominative which you already know :-)
As for long vowels, make them as long as you want. The main thing is keeping your short vowels short. It's all relative to your own speech. If you speak slowly and your short vowels aren't that short, then the long ones have to be longer too. Hope that helps :) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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