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Output Super Challenge? | ||
Tags: Super Challenge | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| rdearman Senior Member United Kingdom rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5237 days ago 881 posts - 1812 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin | Message 1 of 21 19 February 2015 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'm sure everyone has heard of the Super Challenge and I wondered if anyone would be interested in a parallel super challenge for output next year, to run concurrently with the normal Super Challenge? Basically something like writing 100 pages and recording 100 hours of audio.
This would mean with the SC and the Output SC together you'd cover reading, writing, listening and speaking in your target language. Discussion? Good idea? bad? Indifferent? 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5167 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 2 of 21 19 February 2015 at 3:24pm | IP Logged | ||
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Sounds like a good idea. I'd join it for sure. So far the TAC team challenges have been my main source of motivation for writing in my TLs, so I believe such challenge would do the same but in a larger scale.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| eyðimörk Triglot Senior Member France goo.gl/aT4FY7 Joined 4100 days ago 490 posts - 1158 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French Studies: Breton, Italian | Message 3 of 21 19 February 2015 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'm not one for these challenges, but it's nice to see an idea that focuses on output. It's easy to go a bit input crazy.
I've actually been enjoying doing a kind of writing "challenge" of my own lately. Thrice weekly, I start a new story in French (to finally learn to conjugate the passé simple correctly, and to practise more "advanced" grammar and turns of phrase) and I write one scene. Then I move on. Sometimes I get them corrected by a native and spend some time going over the correction before starting my next story. Once I feel more confident with the passé simple, I intend to get some slightly "high brow" magazines, study their writing style, and do essentially the same thing but with an intellectual/journalistic touch. In addition to improving my language skills, I am really enjoying the creative kick that I am getting from writing French fiction because, while I have always enjoyed writing fiction, I have come to put enormous pressure on myself when I write in Swedish or English. With French, however, I don't expect a masterpiece or a perfect story idea. I can explore just about anything. Somewhat off-topic, but I thought I'd mention this personal "challenge" in case it inspired someone to do more writing of their own before the potential "parallel super challenge for output next year". 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5263 days ago 2241 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 4 of 21 19 February 2015 at 4:31pm | IP Logged | ||
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For people who need challenges for motivation, I think an output challenge is a good thing. I don't need a challenge for motivation, myself.
Before the super challenge, HTLAL was skewed more towards learning resources and methods. The super challenge got more people to explore a language beyond learner based resources. Most who take part and complete the challenge improve their language skills. Now, HTLAL is perhaps skewed more towards input with output having significantly less weight. If I were taking part, I wouldn't want to record myself even speaking my native language as I don't like to hear myself speak, but I'd be happy to log my time. Obviously this is all on the honor system, which brings up the hassles Cristina has had with "what counts"? Right now, I cant foresee all the possible quibbles about "what counts" as writing and speaking but without a clear outline it could become problematic. People may want to count blog posts, writing on HTLAL in TL (correction is difficult here because of the text interface), etc. If I write 100 pages without correction, what good does that do for me if my goal is to become a better writer? For speaking, be prepared for- "If I post a 'talking head' video or a solo audio on youtube or sound cloud does that count?". "How is 'page'/speaking defined?", etc. So I advise a clearly delineated and defined set of guidelines as to "what counts" and "what doesn't" in order to avoid many of the hassles. Perhaps a separate thread/debate about "what counts" and why could help to come to a consensus. Some learners may work on output less because it is not a priority and some may work on it less because considerably more effort must go into output than with input. Minor languages are obviously under-represented on lang8. People may have to wait a long time for corrections. Long posts tend to draw less correctors. Some languages have few opportunities for speaking outside of paid tutors. If someone doesn't have English as a native language it can be significantly harder to find a free language exchange for speaking, etc. Still, I believe this could serve as an impetus to drive more learners to improve their output. In my experience, all facets of a language tend to inform and improve each other. Good idea, rdearman! Edited by iguanamon on 19 February 2015 at 4:59pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Radioclare Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom timeofftakeoff.com Joined 4584 days ago 689 posts - 1119 votes Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian | Message 5 of 21 19 February 2015 at 6:24pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think it sounds like a great idea :) I am trying to work on my writing in Croatian this year, but I am really struggling with motivation and I think I'm the sort of person that finds a challenge really helpful for that.
I'm not sure whether it would necessarily need to run at the same time as the existing Super Challenge though? Just thinking that it might be a bit overwhelming to try and make massive improvement in all those skills at once, particularly for people who aren't yet advanced in the languages they are studying. I agree with iguanamon that defining the rules could be a nightmare! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| rdearman Senior Member United Kingdom rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5237 days ago 881 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin | Message 6 of 21 19 February 2015 at 6:46pm | IP Logged | ||
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Personally I think any speech is helpful. I find that when I'm speaking (for example) with couple of Italian speakers, it forces me to cast my mind about for words in the dim backwaters of my memory. And like Iverson has said on a number of occasions 'thinking' in your target language helps, even if you don't get corrections. It flags up gaps and issues to work on.
The same thing for writing. It helps you to think about output and flags up gaps in your knowledge, spelling, vocabulary, etc. I don't really think you have to have corrections, but of course they are very useful. Radioclare is correct it doesn't have to run concurrent with the SC, we could just start an "output challenge" which runs for 10 months from Mar-Dec 2015. Actually makes the math easier. 10 months, 100 pages, 100 hours. Pages can be defined easily enough, just like the Super Challenge 250 words is equal to 1 page. So it doesn't matter if you write a blog post, an email, lang-8, or scribble on a napkin. Audio is defined as your speaking recorded, so if you record a skype exchange you'd have to trim out all other speakers and then count your speaking time only. Not hard with audacity. The rule here would be, has to be your voice only, and has to be recorded. Rules should be KISS (Keep It Simple Silly) ;) All of this stuff is honour system. If people want to cheat themselves who am I to stop them? 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Radioclare Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom timeofftakeoff.com Joined 4584 days ago 689 posts - 1119 votes Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian | Message 7 of 21 19 February 2015 at 10:38pm | IP Logged | ||
That sounds good to me :) My time spent speaking Croatian this year is precisely zero, so 100 hours would definitely be a challenge!! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Stelle Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada tobefluent.com Joined 4145 days ago 949 posts - 1686 votes Speaks: French*, English*, Spanish Studies: Tagalog | Message 8 of 21 20 February 2015 at 12:11am | IP Logged | ||
I love the idea of an output challenge. The idea of recording Skype conversations, fiddling with cutting out audio, though ...it seems like the opposite of simple, and definitely not for me. But I'll be happy to watch it unfold and see how it goes! 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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