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6WC - Finnish (MGF) | ||
Tags: 6 Weeks Challenge (6WC) | Finnish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| MeshGearFox Senior Member United States Joined 6692 days ago 316 posts - 344 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian | Message 25 of 38 24 April 2007 at 12:21am | IP Logged | |||||
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Day 10 (?)
--- Did the rest of Teksti Yksi.
I feel quite good about this one. I'm not sure why, say, in , "Joskus heidän oli vaikea ymmärtää toisiaan" 'he' is in the genetive, but mostly, I feel like I'm starting to get some of this stuff. I'm recognizing more words now, definitely, and will do some vocab cramming eventually, and review the translations sometime soonish. I'm going to start on Teksti 2 -- will add some to this post when I get through that. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6891 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 26 of 38 24 April 2007 at 6:07am | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, saada = get, receive (as a gift), be allowed to, just like "få" in Swedish. I wouldn't say it works literally as "get", I'd say it's similar but even more so :o) ie. it goes even further in that direction than "get" does in English. You'd use "saada" for "being allowed to" also in situations where you'd have "can" or "may" in English (the same goes for "få" in Swedish btw.). "Saanko mennä elokuviin" - "Can/may I go to the movies?". Edited by Hencke on 24 April 2007 at 6:08am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6891 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 27 of 38 24 April 2007 at 6:27am | IP Logged | |||||
And with good reason ! Well done ! As you can see I have made some minor tweaks above, making an extra effort to preserve the "literal" style you use there.
I can't explain the grammar for that, but "heidän" conveys the meaning that it was difficult "for them". Note that "heidän" is not the subject in that sentence. In fact there isn't one. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6594 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 28 of 38 24 April 2007 at 8:09am | IP Logged | |||||
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I'll add that except for some certain adjectives as hyvä, paha, ikävä, hauska, mukava, helppo, vaikea, normally the adjective is in the partitive in such sentences. Some sources however note only hyvä and paha as the ones that should be used in the nominative here, so it's probably not a mistake to use any other adjective in the partitive. and there's not always a noun in the genitive in such sentences, sometimes there's an adverb instead, like in Täällä on kaunista - It's beautiful here; or sometimes there's nothing before "on", eg "On mielenkiintoista opiskella suomea".
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| MeshGearFox Senior Member United States Joined 6692 days ago 316 posts - 344 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian | Message 29 of 38 24 April 2007 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks for the corrections! Looking back over it, I think I generally see what I did wrong (except for leaving out 'eyes' in that one sentence. There have been a few instances prior where I've just completely skipped words and have gotten very confused).
I've toyed around with the idea of writing in, say, C++ or something, some sort of program which would decline any sort of regularly declining noun put into it. Not so much to actually use it, but more as a way of forcing myself to learn the various rules about how to derive stems and how they mutate. I plan on starting a more aggressive apporach to vocabulary soon, starting with common irregular or semi-irregular words, and then probably just moving off from their and using something like wordlists for the various Ymmarra word lists. Or, as an exercise, I could just put each word I want to learn into every form of it. Since the vocab I need is mostly concentrated in one place, though, using the sentence method would also be quite viable. --- Read up quite a bit on deriving the genitive stem tonight. Didn't translate anything, though. It doesn't seem as bad as I initially expected. Edited by MeshGearFox on 25 April 2007 at 2:46am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| MeshGearFox Senior Member United States Joined 6692 days ago 316 posts - 344 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian | Message 30 of 38 26 April 2007 at 12:01am | IP Logged | |||||
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Day 12 (I think)
--- Another paragraph done. As for genitive stems, I feel reasonable comfortable with behavior of -nen words at least. -si for genitive stem declension and -sta for stuff in the partitive seems reasonable enough. I don't particular understand the behavior of words that end in -s in the nominative. Is this a particularly large group of words? Given that it's freaking me out, I'm going to assume that it will be, without a doubt, the largest group of words in Finnish. Just to make my life difficult ;)
I feel very *un*confident about this bit. I think the first part is okay but I sort of fell apart towards the end. Also, I'm not really sure how saappaittensa is inflecting. Saapas is the nominative. Saappaa, thus, is the strong grade genitive stem. To make it plural, I add an i, and since the stem I'm working with ends in a double vowel (aa), I make it ai. Okay. That's half the word. -nsa is, apparently, some sort of third person possessive marker. Which leaves me wondering, then -- what's the -tte there? Edited by MeshGearFox on 26 April 2007 at 12:03am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6594 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 31 of 38 26 April 2007 at 8:16am | IP Logged | |||||
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-tten is the same ending as -den, just a bit more common in spoken Finnish.
as for -s words, there are quite a lot of them, but I'd say less than -nen words. and I guess the resource you used explains them in a too complicated way, since they're not really difficult. all words that have a single o or u before the s, get a k before it when declining (originally it was in the nominative stem as well). some -as, -äs and -is words do the same, but most get aan/ään/iin and undergo reversed consonant gradation. I believe the only words that don't are actually teräs, kannas and some names eg Tuomas, at least I can't remember any other atm. now the words that have a diphtong before s, usually one that ends in -u/-y. here it depends whether the noun is derived from a verb (eg korjata->korjaus hence korjauksen) or an adjective (terve -> terveys - terveyden; I believe some words in this group are also derived from nouns, but can't come up with an example). Oh, and if there words ends with uus/yys, it always gets a -de in the genitive. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6891 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 32 of 38 26 April 2007 at 10:48am | IP Logged | |||||
(*) keksiä = invent, among other things. In this case, keksiä = come up with the solution (**) Answer: the slick leather surface presumably found on the soles of elegant italian boots is one of the most slippery things in existance on ice. The woolen stockings will provide a huge improvement in friction. (***) "eikä" conveys the meaning "contrary to what would otherwise have been the case, she did in fact not fall" Very well done, again ! You misunderstood some details but you got the general meaning all right. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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