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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| lola Groupie Joined 7157 days ago 63 posts - 65 votes  | Message 1 of 17 03 June 2005 at 8:40am | IP Logged | |||||
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Ardaschir's suggestions here about an 'ideal' (not compulsory, and not the only alternative) language shopping list for a westerner included Latin and Greek. Well, it really got me thinking, because I remember looking forward to the year I would have Latin at High school (quickly changed to 'get me out of here, this is dead boring') as well as being envious of my sister who could decipher Ancient Greek...
So I find myself now collecting material for future use (got French to deal with first) in both languages, and I've come across a site called Textkit where you can download old text books and some readers for both languages. I wonder if someone could have a look at that basic learning material and tell me if they are as good as (or better than) any modern book. Or maybe you have a better suggestion. My goal while tackling those languages is not to become proficient but more become acquainted with the basics, in order to satisfy my curiosity and round my education. So I should be able to read some intermediate text at the end of it all. Restrictions on the methods are my inability to learn by rote memory, and lack of discipline to deal with 'dead boring' material for too long (more than a couple of sessions). I've come across two books by Peter Jones, Learn Latin' and Learn Ancient Greek, and I was wondering if anyone has had a look at them. Do you think they may be a nice introduction to either language, just before I get my hands on a proper 'text book', or even, instead of further learning? Edited by lola on 03 June 2005 at 8:44am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Raistlin Majere Trilingual Hexaglot Senior Member Spain uciprotour-cycling.c Joined 7157 days ago 455 posts - 424 votes 7 sounds Speaks: English*, Spanish*, Catalan*, FrenchA1, Italian, German Studies: Swedish | Message 2 of 17 03 June 2005 at 9:54am | IP Logged | |||||
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Are you conscious that Ancient Greek is probably going to be much more difficult for you to learn than Latin? If, as I have gathered from some of your posts, you live in Spain, you should get better marks at high school with Greek than with Latin, but not because it is easier, but rather because the level is much lower.
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| Qbe Tetraglot Senior Member United States joewright.org/var Joined 7140 days ago 289 posts - 335 votes Speaks: English*, Latin, Ancient Greek, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Japanese, German, Mandarin, Aramaic | Message 3 of 17 03 June 2005 at 10:17am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks for pointing out Textkit--what a great site!
It's going to be difficult to use the books available on that site without having to do some rote memorization. That was the old-style method, after all: the more grammatical equipment you can carry in your head, the better you'll understand the languages and the less time you'll have to spend in grammar books and dictionaries trying to parse out a strange form of an irregular verb you've never seen before, for example. If you have access to the Peter Jones books via library, check them out. I've never read the Greek book, but I did read his Latin book one night in 1998 when I was at the hospital with my wife (she had morning sickness); I don't remember it well, but I do have the impression that it was light on paradigms. They may suit your purposes. However, they may also be too light for your purposes. If you want something meatier, you'll probably end up with a course which will require you to do some memorization. I took a look at the books on the Textkit site. For Latin, I think I'd pick "Beginner's Latin Book" for its shorter, self-contained lessons with manageable paradigms, vocabulary and good range of exercises. My own preference, though, is Wheelock's Latin. It too contains short, manageable lessons with reasonable amounts of memorization, but it also introduces you to classical authors very early on. That was very appealing to me when I started Latin. As for Greek, the Textkit site has White's "First Greek Book", which is a reasonable choice. I read his "Beginner's Greek Book" quite a while ago, and I like this shorter version. If you're interested in Homeric Greek, Pharr's book is a good one, but it requires you to turn to the back reference section to find paradigms for memorization. That might not be so pleasant to do with a PDF file. Again, my personal preference is a book not on Textkit. In college we used An Introduction to Greek by Crosby and Shaeffer, also an older book (copyright 1928) which is now being reprinted. What I like about Crosby and Schaeffer is that the lessons are quite reasonable in length but also contain frequent useful and interesting side notes on Greek thought, Greek culture, translation tips, etc. Crosby and Schaeffer also introduce Greek authors early on. Since your goal is to read the Greeks, actually reading them early in the course is a great motivator. Over the years I've looked at quite a few Greek books, old and new, and I still like Crosby and Schaeffer best. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Qbe Tetraglot Senior Member United States joewright.org/var Joined 7140 days ago 289 posts - 335 votes Speaks: English*, Latin, Ancient Greek, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Japanese, German, Mandarin, Aramaic | Message 4 of 17 09 June 2005 at 9:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
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While at Barnes & Noble last week I spotted Peter Jones' "Learn Ancient Greek" on the clearance rack for $6.98. That was too good to pass up. I've read the first few chapters and like what I see. It's certainly lighter than most Greek textbooks. Jones assumes that you're learning Greek for fun and treats the subject accordingly. He gives plenty of insight into Greek culture, Greek roots of English, and gets you reading real Greek as quickly as possible. He still presents paradigms and vocabulary for memorization (impossible to avoid it) but it shouldn't be intolerable.
The book covers quite a bit of territory in a short amount of space. It does not start out with the traditional focus on the accent system, which is probably a good choice for the casual beginner. The grammar focus is on form recognition and translation without a strong emphasis on analysis of syntax. Again, probably a good choice for the casual beginner. It's difficult to go wrong with "Learn Ancient Greek". If you stay interested long enough to complete the book, you can certainly move on to a more advanced textbook. "Learn Ancient Greek" seems able to keep you interested long enough to reach that point. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| lola Groupie Joined 7157 days ago 63 posts - 65 votes | Message 5 of 17 10 June 2005 at 6:11am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks for the feedback, it's very useful.
I have found a a couple of links about Latin: Latin 1: The easy way is a very brief introduction to the very basic structure of the language and a small vocabulary (I didn't count them but probably no more than 50 words). The short 10 lessons can be completed in a couple of hours (a little more if you do all the exercises), but it is easy, fun and leaves you wanting more. An ideal taster. Latin for Mountain Men: this is a more comprehensive book, more on the line of Peter Jones' but apparently different. I haven't gone through it but it seems more grammar focused. I would appreciate people's comments, specially if it is a good intro as Jones' for the casual beginner (I like the term). For those keen on both Greek and Geometry, find about this and other curiosities at Tuttle's Classics page. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Qbe Tetraglot Senior Member United States joewright.org/var Joined 7140 days ago 289 posts - 335 votes Speaks: English*, Latin, Ancient Greek, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Japanese, German, Mandarin, Aramaic | Message 6 of 17 10 June 2005 at 8:55am | IP Logged | |||||
And it's by C.J. Cherryh, one of my all-time favorite SF authors. Great find!
Wow, this is a good one too. I've always wanted to read Euclid in Greek. Thanks! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| amoeba Newbie Canada Joined 7116 days ago 5 posts - 5 votes | Message 7 of 17 10 June 2005 at 2:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I thought this quote in Antonio Gramsci's prison notebooks is an interesting reflection of the utility of learning the classical languages:
The quotation reads: "In the old school the grammatical study of Latin and Greek, together with the study of their respective literatures and political histories, was an educated principle - for the humanistic ideal, symbolised by Athens and Rome, was diffused throughout society, and was an essential element of national life and culture. Even the mechanical character of the study of grammar was enlivened by this cultural perspective. Individual facts were not learnt for an immediate practical or professional end. The end seemed disinterested, because the real interest was the interior development of personality, the formation of character by means of absorption and assimilation of the whole cultural past of Modern European Civilisation. Pupils did not learn Latin and Greek in order to speak them, to become waiters, interpreters or commercial letter-writers. They learnt them in order to know at first hand the civilisation of Greece and of Rome - a civilisation that was a necessary precondition of our modern civilisation: in other words, they learnt them in order to be themselves and know themselves consciously." Gramsci, Antonio. ("Selections From The Prison Notebooks." Page Number: 37. Sub Title: On Education.) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| fanatic Octoglot Senior Member Australia speedmathematics.com Joined 7151 days ago 1152 posts - 1818 votes Speaks: English*, German, French, Afrikaans, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Dutch Studies: Swedish, Norwegian, Polish, Modern Hebrew, Malay, Mandarin, Esperanto | Message 8 of 17 10 June 2005 at 3:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks, lola, for the link to the Latin. I have bookmarked the page and I am only in to the second lesson, but it is a great introduction.
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