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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!) | ||
Tags: Multilingual | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Felipe Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6019 days ago 451 posts - 501 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Italian, Dutch, Catalan | Message 225 of 3959 31 January 2009 at 7:06pm | IP Logged | ||
Esp: Gracias por el consejo. No voy a tardar en empezar mi propio hilo multilingüe. Port: Concordo com você que os empréstimos de palavras são muito úteis quando aprende um idioma parecido a outro que já sabe. Boa sorte com o progresso de todos os seus estudos. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6692 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 226 of 3959 01 February 2009 at 3:25am | IP Logged | ||
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Breakfast in a luxury hotel in East Asia is not something to be taken lightly. They obviously want to cater for all nationalities so there is kimchi for the Koreans, sushi for the Japanese, thick fluffy pancakes for the US Americans and... well, who eats a 12-15 cm long smoked fish with head and tail for breakfast? Well, I do, but only here. These buffet breakfasts are truly multicultural, and I would get impossibly fat if I didn't return soon. But the fact is that I leave the Philippines tomorrow without having quite understood the complex verbal system of the local language(s).
POR: Na minha bagagem eu tinha um livro com "Contos" pelo autor relativamente desconhecido José Régio, - escolhido porque era o mais ínfimo livro em Português que eu podia achar na minha biblioteca local para casa. E agora tenho lido isso. E foi uma sorpresa positiva. O primeiro conto trata da "Menina Olímpia e a sua criada Belarmina". A Olímpia é uma velha dama, filha dum juiz rico falhecido há muitos anos atrás, e agora totalmente empobrecida. Todavia ela pasa por as ruas do Porto em seus antigos vestidos, com a velha criada atraso vestida em negro. A fim do conto temos a revelação esperada, que ainda o espantalho vive das esmolas recebidas da criada implorando na rua. O segundo conto trata de uma familia disfuncional, com um filho estupido e egoista e tres filhas: uma prática e boa, uma brava e rebelde e a terça fragil e tímida. A ideia do conto é "Rosa brava" que nenhuma pessoa pode soportar renuncia a o so admirador que ela pudiese achar neste mundo a favor da irmã mais jovem, sem que o seu sacrifício foi reconhecido por nenhuma alma viva. O terceiro conto trata duma rapariga com muitos admiradores, que no entanto nunca achou uma occasão para casarse. No conto central temos um jovem autor desconhecido e pobre que conhece o colega mais velho Luis Silverio, que é famoso e universalmente reconhecido por a sua bondade e altruismo, um vero "paladim do bem". Depois de ele morrer aparecem as suas memorias, que mostram uma odia sem igual à toda a humanidade, tão violente da chocar profundamente todos os seus leitores, mas indubitablemente a sua obra mais brillante e mais pessoal. E dificil não ver neste caráter um imagem do escritor que Regio pudiera ser se houvese vendido a sua integridad para ter mais leitores, e no jovem autor o jovem Regio antes de se decidir do seu camino literario. O cinismo frio no tratamento dos seus personagens me da a impressão que Regio não veramente gosta dos seres humanos, mas também que é demasiado honesto para esconder esse fato. --------- The Portuguese section describes my impression after having read a book with short stories by Jose Regio, a relatively unknown author, whose book I only chose because it was the thinnest one in Portuguese I could find in my local library at home before leaving. The first tale is about a penniless old woman who parades around in the streets of O Porto in big robes from her glorious youth, with her old maid trailing inconspicuously behind. The point is that they both live off the money the maid gets by begging in the streets, and yet the scarecrow is treating her like sht. The next story is about a family with several deeply disgusting members, and the central idea is that the 'middle' daughter, a tomboy that nobody likes, refuses the only man that ever showed any interest in her and lets the youngest sister marry him instead - and of course she don't get a word of thanks. The central tale is about a young unknown author and his friend, who is old and famous and universally praised for his humanity and altruism. The old man dies, and then his memories appear which shows his seeringly deep hatred of everything that could vaguely be described as some kind of a human being. My guess is that Jose Regio - who never got any particular honors for his own slightly vitriolic writings - see the old author as the man he could have been if he had sold his sold to the Devil and written the usual kind of sentimental junk. And he sits there, envious of those who succeeded, but satisfied that he chose to be true to his own misanthropic self. Let me just add that he did in fact get just enough famous to be included in the collection of at least one Danish library. Many thousands of his collegues didn't get that far. Edited by Iversen on 01 February 2009 at 10:48pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5836 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 227 of 3959 01 February 2009 at 4:05am | IP Logged | ||
(No soy capaz de escribir en el portugués) SP: Veo que a veces lees también qualcosa del la literatura como ejercicio del idoma. Los libros "non fiction" no están siempre disponibles, verdad? Fasulye-Babylonia Edited by Fasulye on 01 February 2009 at 9:05am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jar-ptitsa Triglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 5887 days ago 980 posts - 1006 votes Speaks: French*, Dutch, German | Message 228 of 3959 01 February 2009 at 8:23am | IP Logged | ||
LOL!!!!!! :-) one time my father's received a present and it was a very, very long fish. He had head and tail as well, and was about 50cm long hahahahah!!! We didn't eat this creature: he's in our freezer. My mother thinks that it's a special food, and will be delicious. I hope that you will have a good journey. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6692 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 229 of 3959 01 February 2009 at 9:35pm | IP Logged | ||
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SP: Sólo llevé una obra literaria aqui (el libro portuguesa), pero al contrario diccionarios pequeños de ruso, islandés, portugues y rumano, más una guía para filipino/tagalo (y dos guías turisticas en inglés). Y mientras que he estado aquí he comprado un excelente diccionario de latín, una guía para el cebuan y otra para el tagalo y dos (!) diccionarios tagalo (con ejemplos traducidos a fin de que, en principio, podría ser utilizado como textos bilingües en caso que decidiría aprender el tagalog mas tarde). También me compré un diccionario bahasa, pero resultó ser escrito para los malaysios que necesitan información sobre inglés y no el contrario - por esta razón lo arrojó - los libros son baratos aquí y mi bagaje pequeño.
En este momento hay tres horas hasta mi traslado al aeropuerto de Manila, y voy a visitar la librería una última vez para pasar mis últimos pesos. He continuado a estudiar los verbos filipinos par entender el sistema que es tanto diferente del sistema de los idiomas que ya conozco. He combinado las informaciones de tres libros en una pequeña tabla que muestra el complejo juego de los diversos tipos de afijos. Resultó exigir cuatro plumas de colores, así que no doy la tabla aquí, pero espero poder mostrar los resultados como gráficos aqui quando llegaré a casa. En el proceso he descubierto una buena herramienta para el aprendizaje de idiomas. Ya conocía el conjugador de www.verbix.com, que sin embargo no funciona en este momento. Pero en cambio, he encontrado www.allverbs.com que al oposto del Verbix también tiene tablas de conjugacion para tagalo (y ruso). Sin embargo, no es bastante para elucidar todos los problemas de los verbos de tagalo, pero, no obstante, podría resultar útil. En este momento yo cerco el metodo de hallar las formas passivas y activas de un verbo (en la terminologia de Lonely P). También sigue buscando una buena razón para considerar tagalo como idioma ergativo (!). -------------- To Fasulye: I prefer non fiction, but for keeping a language alive fiction can be used (if you can't find something better). In this case I just brought one small literary work with me (the Portuguese one), - and it took me two weeks just to get it opened. On the other hand I brought four micro dictionaries for European languages, one language guide for Filipino plus two ordinary guidebooks in English. And during my stay here I have bought one Latin dictionary, language guides for Cebuan and Tagalog and TWO Tagalog dictionaries (with bilingual examples). I also bought a Bahasa dictionary, but threw it out because it clearly was intended for Malaysian students of English - books are cheap here. I have now two hours until my transfer to the airport, and I'm going to visit the bookstore once more to spend my last pesos. I have continued my inquiries into the mysteries of the Tagalog verbal system, and by combining the information in three books I have made a comprehensive table. But I needed four colours to do it, so you won't get it now (I doubt that most of you will see that as a problem), - maybe later, when I can get it scanned. In the process I found one more good tool for language learning. I already knew the verbal conjugator of www.verbix.com, but that one is down right now. However the same kind of tool can be found at www.allverbs.com, with the difference that this one also has tables for Tagalog (and Russian, though only with transcribed input). In the meantime I'm still searching for a general way to find both the passive and the active 'voice' of a Tagalog verb, - in one of my books the forms are different, in another the translation of some verbs seem to indicate that the same form is used, - I simply need some more information from more compreehensive sources. And I still haven't seen any compelling reason for cathegorizing Tagalog as an ergative language. Edited by Iversen on 01 February 2009 at 10:45pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jar-ptitsa Triglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 5887 days ago 980 posts - 1006 votes Speaks: French*, Dutch, German | Message 230 of 3959 02 February 2009 at 9:06am | IP Logged | ||
jajajaja !!!! ¿Quieres ver una foto del pescado que tenemos en el congelador? Lo saqué ayer. Iversen, eres el especialista no. 1 de saber, escribir y hablar un montón de idiomas, y lo que quiero preguntar es si conoces el lenguaje de señas (cualquier versión por ejemplo danés). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6692 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 231 of 3959 02 February 2009 at 9:37am | IP Logged | ||
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No, yo no sabe hablar en señas, - y puesto que non puedo transferir señas por el internet (sin hacer videos, lo que no quiero hacer) no hay ningun riesgo que yo lo aprende. Estoy en este momento a un computador en el aeropuerto Changi de Singapore, donde hay internet gratuito en el terminal 2. He comprado libros en Manila, y aqui he cambiado el resto del dinero filipino y comprado mas libros, - de lenguas asiaticos como bahasa y thai, pero también un libro del holandés (no he descubierto como hacer accentos agudos en este computador y puedo solamento ver una ventana a la vez, pero es gratuito - no se puede lamentar). Retornaré con almeno una docena de libros, generalmente para idiomas que no intento estudiar. Pero he dicho la misma cosa en el caso de por ejemplo el griego, el portugues y el africaano, y ahora estos libros son muy utiles en mis estudios de dichos idiomas. Y me gustan los verbos filipinos, se solamento yo pudiera hallar mas informaciones y libros mejores sobre este tema. Quiza hay algunos en la Biblioteca del Estado Danés, que está en mi ciudad.
----------- Right now I'm standing at a free computer in the airport of Singapore, Changi. I have bought a lot of (small) books in Manila, and now I have bought even more books here, mostly for Asian languages that I don't intend to learn. Edited by Iversen on 02 February 2009 at 9:52am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Felipe Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6019 days ago 451 posts - 501 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Italian, Dutch, Catalan | Message 232 of 3959 02 February 2009 at 10:14am | IP Logged | ||
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Para decirte la verdad, envidio tus viajes. Me encantaría poder viajar a tantos lugares. En 2006 mi esposa, mi hija y yo fuimos a Roma. Me enamoré de Italia y decidí que tenía que aprender Italiano. Quizás si pudiera viajar más, me animaría a estudiar más. Pero ahora con 2 hijos y un presupuesto apretado no hay mucha probabilidad de que vayamos de vacaciones tan pronto.
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