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Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5836 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map
| Message 297 of 3959 14 February 2009 at 11:41am | IP Logged |
Iversen wrote:
DU: Ik hoop dat DR (Danmarks Radio (en tv)) binnenkort deze idiootische beperkingen zou laten varen, want het is duidelijk in het belang van Denemarken dat mensen buiten Denemarken zou Deens kunnen leren. Ik begrijp echter dat jij moet beeindigen jouw Deense intermezzo - je kun kijken naar andere talen voor een periode van een paar weken, als je kunt gaan op vakantie naar het buitenland, maar als je wilt iets bereiken met jouw taalstudies, moet je ook 'stop' kunnen zeggen - anders eindigt het allemaal in niets. |
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Iversen, je gebruikt weer "u", dus ik verbeter dat maar even. Ken je het verschil tussen een "intermezzo" en "wanderlust"? Daar zit een inhoudelijk verschil in, daarom noem ik dat ook anders. "wanderlust" vindt plaats als ik geen zin meer zou hebben om Turks te leren en dan uitwijk naar andere talen. In dit geval had ik een extra portie tijd (door de ziekte van mijn studiepartner), in zo'n situatie kan ik me natuurlijk - tijdelijk begrenst - even met een andere taal bezighouden, dat is dus een "intermezzo". Dus bij een "intermezzo" hou ik al van tevoren rekening mee dat het maar tijdelijk is. Ik heb dit intermezzo gebruikt, om maar even een "Bestandsaufname" van het Deens te maken (Wat had ik toen geleerd? Welke materialen heb ik hier liggen?) zodoende weet ik dat nu al precies. Dus wanderlust zul je bij mij niet tegenkomen, want zoiets maakt de taalstrategieen kapot. Mijn intermezzo was iets voor 3 dagen, langer had het niet gekund, want de volgende Turkse studiegroep staat weer voor de deur. We willen in Juni 2009 de hele "Güle Güle" boeken doorgewerkt hebben.
Wat is het bij jou dan, "wanderlust" of "intermezzo" ten opzichte van de talen Tagalog en Cebuano?
Fasulye-Babylonia
Edited by Fasulye on 14 February 2009 at 12:13pm
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Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5836 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map
| Message 298 of 3959 14 February 2009 at 11:59am | IP Logged |
Iversen wrote:
DA: Efter besøget på biblioteket var det egentlig planen at jeg skulle hjem for at studere, men det var herligt vejr - blå himmel og ikek en sky på himlen. Så jeg gik først en længere tur i Århus midtpå, og herunder bemærkede jeg at byens hovedseværdighed, 'Den Gamle By', har taget hul på en planlagt udvidelse med en afdeling for nyere byarkitektur, - med gader der skal se ud som i 1927 og i 1974. Det sidste er lidt chokerende, og det minder mig lidt om min 81-årige mors reaktion, da hun på Industrimuseet i Horsens så en stue med teaktræsmøbler næsten som dem hun har derhjemme: "Nu er jeg kommet på museum". |
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NL: Ja, inderdaad, Fasulye is veel te snel!!!!!
ENG: This is wat my "The Golden Book Denmark" says about Arhus:
THE OLD CITY
"A genuine museum village set up in the north-western quarters of Arhus, the Old City (= Den Gamle By) is composed about sixty old buildings brought there, each with its own orignial funrnishings, from varoius areas of Denmark."
Fasulye-Babylonia
Edited by Fasulye on 14 February 2009 at 12:00pm
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Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5836 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map
| Message 299 of 3959 14 February 2009 at 1:39pm | IP Logged |
Iversen wrote:
DA: Efter besøget på biblioteket var det egentlig planen at jeg skulle hjem for at studere,
After visitTHE on the library was it actually the plan that I should home for to study
men det var herligt vejr - blå himmel og ikke en sky på himlen.
but it was wonderful weather - blue sky and not a cloud on heavenTHE
Så jeg gik først en længere tur i Århus midtby,
So I went first a longer tour in Århus midtown
og herunder bemærkede jeg at byens hovedseværdighed, 'Den Gamle By', har taget hul på en planlagt udvidelse
und here-under remarked I that town-its head-sight, the old town, has taken hole on a planned extension
med en afdeling for nyere byarkitektur, - med gader der skal se ud som i 1927 og i 1974.
with a section for newer townarchitecture, - with streets that shall look out as in 1927 and in 1974.
Det sidste er lidt chokerende, og det minder mig lidt om min 81-årige mors reaktion,
The last is (a) little shocking, and it reminds me (a) little about my 81-yearly mother's reaction,
da hun på Industrimuseet i Horsens så en stue med teaktræsmøbler fra halvtredserne,
when she on IndustrymuseumThe in Horsens saw a (sitting)room with teaktree-furnitures from 50sThe (halfthirdtimes-plural-definite)*,
næsten som dem hun har derhjemme:
almost like them she has therehome:
"Nu er jeg kommet på museum".
Now am I come on museum
End of quote.
The Danish word "halvtredserne" is the definite plural of the number 50 (halvtreds). "Halvtredje" is an obsolete word for saying three-minus-a-half, and the thing that it is three-minus-a-half of is the number 20: 2½ x 20 = 50. The ordinal is in fact "halvtredsindstyvende" where you still can see all the old mechanics of a numbersystem based on 20 instead of 10. We also use the numbers halvfjerds and halvfems (70 and 90, from resp. "halvfjerdesindstyve" and "halvfemtesindstyve", i.e. 3½ x 20 = 70 and 4½ x 20 = 90). Btw. "halvanden" (to minus a half) is still good contemporary Danish, but for some infathomable reason we just say "tredive" for 30 (treti, 3 x 10) and "fyrre" for 40 (firti, 4 x 10). But 60 is "tres" (from tresindstyve, 3 x 20) and 80 is "firs" (from firesindstyve, 4 x 20).
The French have something of the same kind, but even our neighbours the Swedes just say femti (five-ten), sjutti (seven-ten) and ninety (nine-ten) and so forth - though 10 in isolation is "tio". To us such a boring number system looks like something from Ikea. |
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Iversen, if you give me the chance to read such hyperliteral Danish-English translations regularly, I will be able to aquire at least a passive reading ability of the Danish language. I am already in an advantage position for this, because I am bilingual in German and Dutch. The trick behind this will be to learn such small keywords as pa = on, ikke = not, jeg = I and similar words by heart, because in every Danish text I will encounter many of them. There are quite a lot of words in Danish which I can guess form the German or Dutch language. So I find this "method of teaching" very helpful and it doesn't distract me from my Turkish learning activities. I look forward to reading more of these hyperliteral translations - if it's not too much work for you to write them.
Fasulye-Babylonia
Edited by Fasulye on 04 March 2009 at 6:22am
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Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6692 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map
| Message 300 of 3959 14 February 2009 at 1:45pm | IP Logged |
OK, hver gang jeg skriver noget på dansk, lover jeg at lave en hyper-bogstavelig oversættelse.
OK, every time I write something on Danish, promise I to make a hyperliteral (hyper-letterly) translation
Jeg finder det ret forbløffende (for ikke at sige åndssvagt),
I find it rather amazing (for not to say feebleminded),
at denne metode ikke bruges mere i lærebøger og tekster for sprogstuderende.
that this method not used-is more in learnbooks and texts for language students (languagestudying-S).
Edited by Iversen on 14 February 2009 at 1:47pm
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Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5836 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map
| Message 301 of 3959 14 February 2009 at 1:55pm | IP Logged |
Iversen wrote:
OK, hver gang jeg skriver noget på dansk, lover jeg at lave en hyper-bogstavelig oversættelse.
OK, every time I write something on Danish, promise I to make a hyperliteral (hyper-letterly) translation
Jeg finder det ret forbløffende (for ikke at sige åndssvagt),
I find it rather amazing (for not to say feebleminded),
at denne metode ikke bruges mere i lærebøger og tekster for sprogstuderende.
that this method not used-is more in learnbooks and texts for language students (languagestudying-S).
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That's really a good method!!! ASSIMIL also works with such hyperliteral translations, the same is used in my ASSIMIL-book "Türkisch ohne Mühe". This works effectively, especially when there is a language relationship between the target language and other already known languages.
Fasulye-Babylonia
Edited by Fasulye on 14 February 2009 at 1:55pm
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Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5836 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map
| Message 302 of 3959 15 February 2009 at 1:20am | IP Logged |
Iversen wrote:
DU:
Forresten har biblioteket opsagt abonnementerne på en hel masse aviser, både indenlandske og udenlandske, og blandt ofrene er Corriere della Sera, Le Figaro, El Pais og Ta Nea. I stedet kan man med sit lånerkort få gratis adgang til 250 aviser på internettet på bibliotekets PC'er. Det er nu ikke helt det samme som at sidde med en gammeldags papiravis. Men det kan man vel dårligt tillade sig at sige, så måske kommer der snart nogen og tager mig ved vingebenet og sætter mig på museum...
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NL: Ik heb vanuit het Deens begrepen, dat er bij jullie in de bibliotheek wat abonnenmenten op heel wat buitenlandse kranten worden opgezegt. Zoiets vind ik een hele slechte ontwikkeling! Ik kan niet goed vanuit een beeldscherm langere teksten lezen, daarom vind ik het belangrijk om boeken en tijdschriften te lezen. Bovendien zit ik al de hele werkdag voor een PC dan wil ik 's avonds in de bibliotheek gezellig in een hoekje zitten en daar wat tijdschriften lezen. Dat is puur spaarbeleid, wat erachter zit, want abonnementen op buitenlandse kranten zijn voor bibliotheken duur. Ik weet nog niet eens, welke buitenlandse kranten ze bij ons hebben, want ik lees altijd de tijdschriften "Sterne und Weltraum" en "Bild der Wissenschaft". Ik kan maar eens kijken, welke kranten bij ons liggen, zoveel ik me herinner zijn het meer de Engelstalige kranten zoals "The Harald Tribune" en "The Times".
Fasulye-Babylonia
Edited by Fasulye on 15 February 2009 at 1:38am
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Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6692 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map
| Message 303 of 3959 15 February 2009 at 4:23pm | IP Logged |
DU: Het is feitelijk zo - mijn bibliotheek heeft blijkbaar veele abonnementen van buitenlandse en Deense papierene kranten geannuleerd, maar zal als tegenprestatie toegang geven tot 250 elektronische kranten. Mijn probleem daarmee is dat het al lang nog niet zo behaaglijk is zijn krant op de beeldscherm te lezen, maar het word ook mogelijk naar zeer veel meer stof te zoeken, - bijvoorbeeld omdat wij toegang tot de oude nummers zullen kriegen. Ik denk dat de ontwikkeling van lichte, maar grote en vooral mobile beeldscherme het elektronische lezen snel naar een comfortablere ervaring zou maken, en dan zou dit verandering kunnen worden een positieve ervaring. Ik ben toch blij dat ik niet die een papierene krant zal publiceren in deze digitaale tijden.
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Yes, my local library has stopped its subscription to many foreign and Danish newspapers on paper, but it does provide for 250 digital newspapers, with the possibility of looking for older issues. My problem right now is that it isn't really comfortable to sit in front of a screen and read a digital newspaper, but I hope that the development of lighter, but large and - most important - mobile screens will make reading these electronic media more a pleasant experience than it is now.
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DA: Jeg har for øvrigt brugt søndagen på alt muligt andet end sprog,
I have for other(wise) used sundayThe on every possible other(thing) than language,
- først på at klistre 180 fotografier ind i mit fotoalbum,
- first on to paste 180 photographs into in my photoalbum,
og så på at skrive ting og sager til min rejseforenings hjemmeside (som jeg er webmaster for).
and so (then) on to write things and matters to my travelclub's homepage (which I am webmaster for).
Jeg prøvede at finde noget interessant stof på ikke-dansk og ikke-engelsk,
I tried to find some interesting stuff on not-Danish and not-English,
men det endte med at jeg mestendels sad og gloede på engelsk fjernsyn -
but it ended with that I mostenparts sat and glared on English television -
og det kan være underholdende nok, men jeg lærer ikke en snus sprog af det.
and that can be entertaining enough, but I learn not a snuff* language from it.
NB: 'snus' hasn't got the murderous connotations of English snuff. And it is in effect mainly the Swedish who snuff the stuff (chewed tobacco, yikes..), but we have kept the expression in Danish. In proper English: "not a bit", "not the least" or something like that.
FR: Il y avait pourtant une petite expérience qui mérite une commentaire. J'avait l'intention de regarder un programme nommé "regarde, ça pousse" sur TV5, mais il était plus intéressant pour moi d'écouter la fin de l'émission précédente, qui traitait de la (sur)consonsommation, car il était en québécois (ou 'quebecquois' comme l'écrit d'aucuns). Je trouve toujours intéressant d'écouter les variantes des langues que j'ai appris, et je n'ai pas écouté à ce dialecte depuis plusieurs mois. Ce qui me frappe le plus, ce sont les voyelles nasales. Dans "bien", "point" et "besoin" les Québecois disent une voyelle bien plus fermée que les Français de l'Hexagone. Celles-ci disent le même son que le 'a' dans le mot 'manipulation', seulement nasalisé, mais les Québécois disent le son de 'pêle-mêle', nasalisé. C'est en effet la vieille prononciation d'avant la révolution Française qui a était préservée ici, tandis que les Français Français maintenant ont adapté le son ouvert prononcé par le riff-raff Parisien. Les Québecois ont aussi une tendance à prolonger certaines voyelles, y inclus des nasales. Par example j'ai entendu le mot "exactemaeing". J'ai aussi entendu un 'o' nasalisé fermé: "le tronsport". Nous avons eu des discussions ici sur le québécois et parfois on s'est lamenté qu'il serait difficile de le comprendre. Mais dans ce cas je n'ai eu aucun problème à comprendre ce dialecte savoureux.
D'aileurs j'ai eu une rare occasion de parler un peu de Français. J'ai reçu une lettre de KLM/AirFrance qui disait tout bonnement que mes 'miles' allaient expirer en juin cette année, à moins que je n'achetais un billet payant. Or mon budget ne permet pas de longs voyages pour le moment. Aussi vais-je visiter la noble ville de Strasbourg dans le mois prochain pour m'amuser un peu avec mes milles pour éviter que Air France les bouffe.
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In this last section I comment on some phonetic characteristics of Quebecois, i.e. the kind of French spoken in the Eastern part of Canada. Their nasal vowels are much more closed than those of French Frenchmen, and they sometimes even make them into nasal diphtongs. My impetus for writing about these things is that I have listened more or less accidentally to a programme on TV5 with advice for shopaholics living in these troubled times, where they can't just walk out and buy everything they fancy. Among the advices given were such brilliant ideas as "Wait until tomorrow", "Pay in cash and don't bring more than you intend to spend", "Buy something cheaper" etc. I wonder whether you really can use logical arguments when discussing with true nut cases from this category, but here at least they tried in a delicious kind of French. Most of the other programs I have watched today have been in English, and I may learn some interesting things - for instance about new exciting finds of Chinese dinosaurs from the early Cretaceous - but I don't learn much languagewise.
Edited by Iversen on 16 February 2009 at 3:24am
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| SII Senior Member Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5781 days ago 184 posts - 194 votes Speaks: Russian* Studies: English
| Message 304 of 3959 15 February 2009 at 9:01pm | IP Logged |
Iversen wrote:
RU: Она также может быть использован для написания букв кириллицы. |
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Она также может быть использована для написания букв кириллицы.
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