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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6692 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3657 of 3959 18 July 2014 at 11:30am | IP Logged |
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IT: Ieri sera ho guardato il programma SuperQuark su Raiuno, ed apprendì una nuova parola: remora. Una remora è un pesce che si appiccia a un pesce più grande - o come nella prima parte del programma - al delfino sfortunato che mangia il suo padrone involuntario. Infatti questo fu la seconda volta ieri che ho visto qualcosa sopra i delfini: NRK1 da Norvegia ha raccontato come funciona il cervello di animali intelligenti perché sociali. Come per esempio i delfini. Raiuno ha ancora detto qualcosa di strade che hanno buche perché il loro fondamento non è adeguato. Ma i vecchi romani facevano già strade che non incorrono buche..
Edited by Iversen on 21 July 2014 at 12:30pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6692 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3658 of 3959 21 July 2014 at 12:04pm | IP Logged |
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IT: Ho dovuto correggere un sacco di errori nel testo di Venerdì sopra, perché avevo troppo fretta quando l'ho scritto. Ma c'è una cosa di più che merita un commento: le mura di Roma! Non solo le strade dei romani erano ben costruiti, ma anche i suoi mura - e SuperQuark commentò anche su quest'aspetto dell'ingegneria romana. Infatti c'è solamente una cosa che non sapevano ancore fare nell'antiquita: volte a crociera come nei cattedrali gotici.
LAT: Fundator et primus rex Romae Romulus fuit. Fratrem habebat (Remus), sed necavit illum dum muros transiluit. Murus Romuli in saecula saeculorum abolevit, sed de muro successoris sui Servii Tullii jam extat pars prope stationem ferroviariam Termini. Muri (seu moenia) Aureliani magna parte extant, post MDCC annos. Dum visita meae ultima Romae ego in diversorio ad orientalem stationis mansi, et quandum de diversorii ad hortum zoologicum ivi, plerumque secus murum Aureliani ambulavi. SW: Anledningen till att jag var tvungen att lämna HTLAL så plötsligt fredag var att jag hade reserverat plats på ett tåg till Köpenhamn för att delta i ett möte i min resenärer-klubb. Men jag tyckte at det vora idiotisk at returnera direkt til Århus etterpå, så i stället köpte jag en "Öresund runt"-biljett som gir frit resa til Skåne antingen med färjan til Helsingborg eller med tåget til Malmö över Öresundbron og tilbaka den andra vägen. Ock i Skåne får man fritt köre med alla Pågåtåg, Öresundståg, regionalbuss og stadsbussar för endast 249 SEK i två dagar (ungefär 27€) - ock det er billigt! Jag besökte Ängelholm ock så har Järnvägsmuseet og Hembygsparken med en liten djurpark, fyra små museer og matställan, derfra åkte jag til Landskrona ock besökte här museet i den gamla kasernbyggnaden, og sluttligen åkte jag via Helsingborg til Hässleholm, var jag sov. På söndagen besökte jag först Hässleholms museum og Lidl, ock darifrån åkte jag til Kristiansstad ock besöckte också här et järnvägsmuseum samt Länsmuseet og Konsthallen innan jag åkte hem via Kastrup Airport. Og på hela turen pråtade jag mit svenska med tydlig dansk accent - men svenskarna förstår dette mycket bättre enn danska. Berlin var for övrikt ett bra ställa at träna sitt svenska - det var förvånande hur månge deltakare där som pratede på svenska (ock inte enbart svenskare som Jeff L). Jag köpte också två vetenskappsblad på svensk, og kanske skrivor jag något om dessa senare. ENG: And for ye Anglophones: I forgot to mention another clip from SuperQuark, namely the one about the walls around Rome. The old Romans not only knew how to construct roads without potholes, but they also knew how to build walls. The first one by Romulus can't have been very high because according to Livy bro' Remus jumped over it - and was promptly killed by Romulus, who with that crime once and for all had made clear that the Romans were a bunch of aggressive murderers who wouldn't accept any challenges from outsiders. Romulus' wall is gone now, but there are still remains near Stazione Termini of the wall erected by the 6. king, Servius Tullius. However when you speak about the walls of Rome you normally refer to the massive fortifications erected under the emperor Aurelian, which still stand around the town for many kilometers. OK, they have been repaired a couple of times since Aurelian, but when I walked from my hotel to the East of Termini to the Zoological garden a couple of years ago, I followed the Roman walls most of the way. Edited by Iversen on 21 July 2014 at 1:08pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6692 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3659 of 3959 22 July 2014 at 2:42pm | IP Logged |
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SW: De två tidskrifter jag har köpt heter Illustrerad Vetenskap och Vetenskap. Framsidan på Illustrerad Vetenskap säger at "Goggle uppfinner din framtid", ock det är förmodligen sannt. Men artiklen inne i bladet handler mest om den miniatyrskärm man kan sätte på sina glasögon, og det nævnes ikke at många människor inte kan se ett dugg på så närt hold. Eller i fall de kann, at de så inte kann akkomodera snabbt - ock så kör de ind i något medan de studerar Google Earth på skärmen. I en annan artikel omtales operationer med 'bra' musik, og det föreslås at spela Pink Floyd med extra basgång inn i magen på patienter. Stackars patienter ock stackars läkare og stackars medpatienter inom hörhåll. Om någon skola gilla detta skräckscenerio, foredrar jäg dom utöver deras aktivitetar bag another brick in the wall på the dark side of the Moon.
I Vetenskap sägs det at "Jakten gjorde oss till människor". Det är välkänt att hominidernes hjärnor forst verkligen började växa när våra förfäder ble köttätare (Homo Habilis ock senare ergaster, erectus, heidelbergensis ock så videre). Men detta är Sverige, og det vora fult - isär i det politisk korrekte Sverige - at säga att vegetarianer riskerar at bli dumma, så författeren skyndar sig att tillägga att det finns utmärkta vegetarianske livsmedel i butikerna dessa dagar, så det är ingen anledning som helst att frukta för vegetarianernes intelligensnivå. Å andra sidan skadar en stor fet stek förmodligen inte heller. En annan artikel påminner om den geomagnetiska anomali i den södra del af Atlanten - har är magnetfältet så svakt, at satellitter risikerar at skadas av kosmiska strålar fra rymden. Ock anomalin drar langsamt, men säkert mot Sydamerika. Vad blir det då av satellit-TV ock mobiltelefoni där? Edited by Iversen on 22 July 2014 at 2:54pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6692 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3660 of 3959 23 July 2014 at 12:43pm | IP Logged |
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FR: Hier j'ai regardé la télé toute la soirée. OK, c'est tout à fait normal, mais tout de même important puisque c'est surtout là que j'écoute 'mes' langues.
Sur Viasat Nature, où la programmation anglophone normalement domine, j'ai regardé un programme en français de Nouvelle Calédonie (un département français à l'est de l'Australie - drôle de pays!). On a d'abord décrit une maladie nommé ciguatera (apparemment un nom espagnol) causé par des microalgues dans la chair des poissons que la population mangent. Il parait qu'il existe une plante qui peut guérir la maladie en éliminant la toxine, et maintenant il y a une compagnie qui a obtenu le brevet sur un médicament basé sur cette plante. Reste à voir combien ça va coûter d'acheter ce medicament - peut-être le prix sera trop haut pour les Kanak. La Nouvelle Calédonie a aussi d'autres problèmes, comme par example l'érosion et l'empoisonnement géneral causé par l'exploitation minière de nickel. Heureusement il existe un seul type de champignon qui supporte le nickel et peut détoxifier l'ambiance polluée. GER: Danach habe ich 3Sat geschaut, wo drei Leute zuerst Schweinekotelett oder so was zubereitet haben mit allerlei hinterhältigen Tricks - und viel Butter. Danach etwas über die Megalithenkultur (mit großen Steine, 'lay lines' und Besuch in Glastonbury). Und schliesslich eine Sendung von Tirana, gemacht von Schwiizertüütschen, aber leider synchronisiert in standard Hochdeutsch. FR: Et après ça encore une dose de français avec "Secrets d'histoire", et le secret ici était la vie de la célèbre Madame de Pompadour, qui évidemment était une femme extraordinairement intelligente et apparemment extraordinairement attractive aussi, puisque elle a réussit a attrahir le roi Louis XV à un tel degré qu'il l'a retenue comme d'abord matresse charnelle et puis amie spirituelle/pratique pendant vingt années, bienque elle était d'origine bourgeoise et pas très populaire au cour parmi tous les crétins et crétines snobs nobles. Et le roi? Qu'est-ce qu'un pervers priapique! Mais comme roi de France il pouvait se permettre quoi que ce soit, ce qui montre la perversité fondamentale de la société à l'époque. Néanmoins j'ai été totalement ébloui par la beauté des intérieurs de l'époque, et c'est intéressant de savoir à quel degré Madame de Pompadour a joué un rôle dans le développement artistique à l'époque. Par example je ne savais pas que c'était elle qui crea la manufacture nationale de porcelain à Sèvres. Mais maintenant je le sais - un secret moins dans le monde! SER: После поноћи сам видео културни дневник из Србије. И схватио да неће бити Хари Потер парк у Јапану. Edited by Iversen on 24 July 2014 at 11:06am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6692 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3661 of 3959 25 July 2014 at 12:01pm | IP Logged |
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I don't have much time to write here today, so I'll just mention that I finally have started to read the Croatian verb book from Pons which I bought in Berlin. Well, it is actually Serbian I claim to study, but I couldn't get on for that language so now time will tell how much difference there is between them.
One interesting feature in both languages is that the past tense ('perfect') isn't the only one: there is an imperfect even an aorist, although they are said mostly to be used in literature and fixed formulae. But the copula verb "biti" has a full aorist paradigm with "bih, bi, bi, bismo, biste, biče" which is used as an auxiliary verb in the conditional ("on bi gledao" - 'er würde sehen') - and lo and behold, this "bi" must be the same as the socalled particle used with the past tense in Russian (and amalgamated with it in Polish). Furtermore "biti" in the unstressed present tense is used to form the socalled perfect ("ja sam gledao" - 'ich habe gesehen'). And again this sheds some light on Polish and Russian, where the auxiliary was lost so that the past tense became a one word paradigm with adjectival endings. I knew that Bulgarian had preserved the auxiliary, and of course I had soon discovered that Serbian had kept it too, but it is always nice to have confirmation. And the funny thing is that it is the copula verb (in an unstressed form) which is used here. In the Romance and Germanic language the normal auxiliary is the local variant of "to have", and then "is" is used with some verbs (or not - as in Spanish). And now we are at it: there are apparently both stressed and unstressed forms of the copula special plus negative forms (I didn't expect to see that outside the Celtic languages!): "nisam, nisi, nije, nismo,niste,nisu". One thing that has bothered me is the unmotivated "je" in the unstressed paradigm: "sam, si, je, smo, ste, su". But it is less mysterious when you see the stressed paradigm alongside it: "jesam, jesi, jest, jesmo, jeste, jesu". In the third person singular it was just the beginning that was retained, where it was the end in all other forms. One final observation: Serbian actually has an aorist (like Bulgarian and - of course - Greek), though it is used mainly in old literature and some fixed expressions. But the aorist of "biti" is "budem, budeš, ...", and it is used to form the "Futurum 2" (in Pons equated with the Latin futurum exactum): "budem glesao" -¨'ich werde gesehen haben'. By the way: right now HTLAL is functioning almost as fast as in the old days. I wonder why. Edited by Iversen on 25 July 2014 at 12:12pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Zireael Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 4640 days ago 518 posts - 636 votes Speaks: Polish*, EnglishB2, Spanish Studies: German, Sign Language, Tok Pisin, Arabic (Yemeni), Old English | Message 3662 of 3959 25 July 2014 at 3:46pm | IP Logged |
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Budem, budes etc. sound like Polish or Russian future forms. More connections?
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| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6692 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3663 of 3959 28 July 2014 at 12:03am | IP Logged |
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The reason that I found it puzzling to see "budem, budeš, ..." described as the aorist of "biti" (to be), is that my Russian grammars describe the imperfective (or perifrastic or analytic) future as a combination of the future of "быть" and the infinitive - there is not mention of any aorist here, only in my Bulgarian and my Serbian(Croatian grammars.
In Greek the aorist stem has a 'present'-like form, which is used with a couple of particles that gives it futuric or subjunctive meaning, and a 'past' form which to my ungreek mind looks like a parallel to the simple perfect in other languages - although this view seems to be frown upon by the grammarians. So seeing "budem, budeš.." in Croatian and Serbian named as aorists and coupled with the perfect passive participle clashed with seeing things like "я буду делать" in Russian. I suppose all these 'budus' in some way represent the same ancient verbal form, but I don't know whether it's the Southern Slavic or the Russian/Polish use of it which has remained closest to the original. And should I care? Well, maybe not, but I like to understand why languages look like they do. Btw: to learn more about the role of the aorist I have checked the article about Bulgarian grammar in Wikipedia. The examples here suggest that the 'past imperfect' in Bulgarian mainly is used in cases with repetition, whereas the 'past aorist' is used in one-time cases. With both, the imperfective verbs suggest an incompleted action (whether repeated or not), while a perfective verb suggest that the action has been completed: Past imperfect imperfective verb: Четях книга = "I was reading a book", "I used to read a book" (but not a whole book; uncompleted action) (...) Всеки ден четях книга = "I used to read a book every day" (but not a whole book, uncompleted repetitive action) perfective verb: Щом прочетях нова книга, започвах да се хваля всекиму = "Whenever I finished reading a new book, I started boasting about it to everyone" (completed repetitive action, notice that the verb is in a dependent clause) Past aorist: imperfective verb: Вчера четох една книга = "Yesterday, I read a book" (but did not necessarily finish it; uncompleted action) perfective verb: Вчера прочетох една книга = "Yesterday, I finished reading a book" (I read a whole book; completed action) Edited by Iversen on 29 July 2014 at 1:01pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6692 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3664 of 3959 29 July 2014 at 3:18pm | IP Logged |
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It can't really come as a surprise for regular readers here that I often use bilingual texts for intensive study. Readers with really good memory may remember that I have written that it isn't really a problem if the translation is done by Google - a errorridden machine translation is better than a illoyal 'free' translation (because errors done by Google often are really gross and easy to spot AND because you only need the translation when you are in doubt about something - and then you may still be able to disregard obviously wrong translations).
AF: Een ding wat ek nie geskryf oor baie dikwels is dat daar kom 'n punt waar die vertaling nie hoof in eie moedertaal te wees nie. Dit is die laaste stap voor die vertaling totaal om te laat vaar. My wanneer je werk intensief met 'n aantal spesifieke taal in 'n tydperk, is daar dalk ander tale wat afgeskeep word. En jy kan nog steeds verfris hulle deur die gebruik van hulle as 'n vertaling taal in tweetalige uittreksel. So vandag lees ek die Serwies Wikipedia artikels oor trilobiete en Kambrium in 'n weergawe met vertaling in't Afrikaans, en later sal ek gaan lees oor kunsmatige werklikheid met 'n vertaling in Roemenisch. Soms weet ek nie 'n woord in enige van die twee talen nie, maar kan uitvind die betekenis, want ek weet 'n lae vloei bietjie van trilobiete en ander diere uit die verlede. Byvoorbeeld het ek nie "зглавкара" nie nóg "geleedpotiges" geweet beforend nie, maar "geleed-" is 'n goeie leidraad, en ek het geweet dat trilobiete was "arthropods" op Engels ("leddyr" op Deens) so... In my Serwies woordeboek projek is ek nou in die middel van С, so daar is nie so baie van die alfabet terug. Edited by Iversen on 29 July 2014 at 4:00pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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