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Practicality of learning Norwegian? | ||
Tags: Motivation | Norwegian | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4639 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 9 of 17 08 January 2014 at 5:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have not been living in Norway for some years, but I think that vermillion is right, at least if you talk about immigrants from countries like Pakistan. Of course in Norway you also find the typical "expat" who moves in an international environment and does not bother to learn Norwegian, as he or she will stay for a few years only.
By the way, the last couple of years there were several stories in Norwegian newspapers about "new immigrants" from the Southern European countries, due to the financial crisis. In particular people from Spain and Portugal went to Norway, sometimes on a one-way ticket, in order to try their luck. Most of them realised pretty soon that without any knowledge of Norwegian they could just forget about finding a job. Even office cleaners are expected to know at least enough Norwegian to understand instructions and communicate with their colleagues. And here we are talking about people who often were highly qualified, people with degrees in engineering, science, nursing etc, who just could not find work in their own country. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| eyðimörk Triglot Senior Member France goo.gl/aT4FY7 Joined 4099 days ago 490 posts - 1158 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French Studies: Breton, Italian | Message 10 of 17 08 January 2014 at 6:14pm | IP Logged | ||
I have only spent a few days in Norway, but this is certainly the case in Sweden. It strikes me as obvious*, but maybe it isn't to others. * The logic being: You have a person, coming from a country where English is not widely spoken and taught to a high level throughout all levels of society, who immigrates to a Scandinavian country. In his new country, he has to learn the local language to get a job. The learning of this language is subsidised. He does not need to learn any English to get a job. The learning of English is not subsidised (although a university education may be free, universities don't generally teach English for beginners since you need a passing grade after 6-10 years of studying the language just to get into university, so you'll go the non-free route). As a result you need a particular ambition to learn English, and a particular family situation (time/money on your side) that many immigrants do not have because they have to work so hard to learn the local language and get jobs in the first place. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4665 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 11 of 17 08 January 2014 at 6:29pm | IP Logged | ||
Reminds me of this story: http://www.exberliner.com/features/lifestyle/sorry-no-german / 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5334 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 12 of 17 08 January 2014 at 7:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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I can only agree with Ogrim.
If you want to work and live here, Norwegian is a must unless you plan to come as a rich man's wife or want to remain within the ex-pat circle. Many well educated Spaniards have left Norway because they were unable to get a job. At the same time there is a parallel society with e.g. Poles who work in construction for Polish companies and who know no Norwegian, but they get very bad conditions, and really depend on their Polish employers. Two good Cuban friends just left Norway after three years, because they were unable to learn the language, my Romanian friends work their butts of to learn Norwegian, and my Peruvian friend, who after 10 years still struggle with her Norwegian would give her right arm to learn the language. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4290 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 13 of 17 08 January 2014 at 10:42pm | IP Logged | ||
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I read the article, and I find it quite disturbing that most expatriates, tourists, or
those who simply refuse to learn the language of the country to be Anglophones. It does not surprise me, but it gives me even more incentive to say that I am from a Hispanophone, Francophone, etc. country if anyone asks me trying to hint to switch to English. It helps that my forename is Spanish. Also there is a strategy, that is that if someone switches to English in those countries where it is spoken to a high level and fairly universally, for the Anglophone to pretend that he or she is from a non-Anglophone country and to thus pretend not to know English. I notice that mostly the Americans do this, followed thereafter by Britons, then the other three being Australians, New Zealanders, and to what I find a much lesser degree, Canadians. In the Costa del Sol, I have heard about pubs dominating, people watching the Manchester or Sheffield derbies instead of La Liga, Spanish being a rarity in some tourist zones, etc., which honestly disturbs me, especially for Britons who live there for decades and can barely say, «Hola» or «Adiós». Australians in Berlin as that article mentions, New Zealanders probably some other places, and I have not heard many complaints about Canadians compared to the other four. And do Americans even move en masse as expatriates to Europe or any other place that they form a sizable community (>10000)? From what I feel, Americans tend to stay in their own country because they feel that everything that they have is the best, and that moving to another country is unpatriotic or unAmerican, which is probably more contributive to refusing to learn another language than Britons or Australians. Also from what I hear, quite a disturbing amount of Americans in the media say that Europe is socialist or communist, same with Latin America, so they try to say in the only remaining "capitalist enclave", that being the USA. I think that Norway, with its social welfare, Third Way model with 70% taxes would scare most Americans from living there. I am not sure about other Anglophones, but I really like Norway's model. I have been to Norway several years ago, and I admit that more than half of the time that I was in Bergen, they switched to English on me, which irritated me. But after I started, probably, speaking better, shopowners, etc. did not switch. The only complicated thing that I asked was an off licence if they would open on Sundays, and if so, when they would refill their stock of ungaseous bottled water. I also went to the Bergen shopping complex to ask for size 81x78cm classic-cut jeans, and the salesperson did not switch to English, so that was good. I would say that learning Norwegian is a prerequisite to spending time there, especially living there, even for a short period. I am sure that they are tired of Anglophones not making any effort even to say hello or one glass of beer, perhaps they shall be pleasantly surprised by an Anglophone speaking it well. Regarding the economic crisis, there have been yes quite many Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Greeks, etc. who attempt to immigrate to Norway, some have left, but many have managed to learn Norwegian to live well with one of the best social welfare systems in the world: Españoles en el Mundo: Oslo Edited by 1e4e6 on 08 January 2014 at 11:19pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4665 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 14 of 17 08 January 2014 at 11:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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Yeah, a language partner from Spain has told me of Americans living there for a decade and still having trouble doing the most basic things in the language. "Muy curioso", he described it. :-P Edited by tastyonions on 08 January 2014 at 11:17pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4290 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 15 of 17 08 January 2014 at 11:23pm | IP Logged | ||
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Exactly, if one lives in another country for at least one decade, and the person is still
confused on how to say "hello", "goodbye", "a beer, please", then I think that the natural response from anyone is, "What the hell have you been doing the whole time then?" Edited by 1e4e6 on 08 January 2014 at 11:23pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4622 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 16 of 17 09 January 2014 at 12:38am | IP Logged | ||
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It probably takes just as much effort to maintain an expat bubble as it does to actually learn the language of
the country you are living in. I remember my early conversations in Germany involved a lot of Neanderthal grunting on my part but I was still able to get the message across. How people can live for many years in a country and still not communicate properly with the natives is a mystery to me. Why they would purposely choose to follow this route is beyond me. There is no reason whatsoever why a long-term anglophone resident in Norway should not be able to learn Norwegian to an acceptable standard. The two languages are close and there must be thousands of cognates and obvious links. Norwegians don't seem to have a great deal of trouble learning English so the same rule should apply in reverse. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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