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TAC 2009-2011 Fasulye’s Turkish / Danish | ||
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 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5840 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes  1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 241 of 868 19 July 2009 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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Sunday, 19 July 2009 = Pazar, 19 temmuz 2009
TURKISH LANGUAGE PRACTICE: MY ESSAY ON SWIMMING (with hyperliterals in Dutch) As my computer had only fallen in the sleep-modus and was not broken (special thanks to Johannes for giving me the hint!!!) I am now able to present my next essay with Dutch hyperlitererals this time. As I went swimming today this inspired me to write a Turkish essay about it. Yüzme havusunda Zwembad-in-het Şehrimde birçok yüzme havusunlar var. In mijn stad een paar zwembaden er-zijn. En çok yüzme havusunda şehrimin yüzmek seviyorum, çünkü elli metre yüzme havusunlu. Het grootste zwembad-in-het van mijn stad zwem ik graag, omdat 50 m zwembad-met. Bügün suyun sıcak derecesi yirmi yedi vardı. Vandaag van-het-water de temperatuur 27 graden er-was. Su hoş, şayet sıcak derecesi fazla soğuk değil. Water aangenaam, als de temperatuur te koud niet. Burada yetişkinler ve çocuklar yüzüyor. Daar volwassenen en kinderen zwemmen. Ama çocuklar için başka küçük ve alçak yüzme havasun var, çünkü büyük fazla derin. Maar kinderen voor ander klein en ondiep zwembad er-is, omdat groot te diep. Çünkü birçok çocuk daha yüzemezler. Want sommige kinderen nog zwemmen-niet-kunnen. Yüzmek çok şağlıklı! Zwemmen zeer gezond! Ne zaman siz yüzme istiyorsunuz? Wanneer jullie zwemmen willen? Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 19 July 2009 at 7:31pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ertugrul Diglot Groupie Turkey Joined 5655 days ago 63 posts - 124 votes Speaks: Turkish*, English Studies: Arabic (Written) | Message 242 of 868 20 July 2009 at 9:35am | IP Logged | ||
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Hello again. Let’s have a look at Johannes’ sentences.
"Ayakım büyük." Here it should have been the consonant mutation or softening. Because "ayak" ends with a strong consonant ("-k") it must be softened to ("-ğ") when taking a suffix starting with a vowel letter. So the sentence is "Ayağım büyük". "Palto iyi kış ortasında." Word order needs to be fixed. Verb or predicate is at the end of the phrase in regular clauses in Turkish, you know. So it is "Palto kış ortasında iyi(dir)". “Bana kazak kışta lazım.” In Turkish, the stress or the word needed to be highlighted is just before the verb. If you intend to highlight the “kazak” then it should be Bana kışın kazak lazım. You point out that you need a something in the winter and that is a jersey. The main purpose of this sentence is to specify that you need a jersey in winter. However, if you intend to highlight “kış” then it should be "Bana kazak kışın lazım". The stress of the sentence is “kış” now. You can consider this when answering these questions: Q1: What do you need in winter? (TR: “Kışın sana ne lazım?”) A1: I need a jersey in winter. (TR: “Bana kışın kazak lazım.”) Q2: When do you need a jersey? (TR: “Sana kazak ne zaman lazım?”) A2: I need a jersey in winter. (TR: “Bana kazak kışın lazım.”) “Elimin beş parmağı var.” No error. “Sol kulağım sağ kulağımtan daha iyi duyabilir.” “kulağımtan” word is not correct. Due to vowel harmony, this pattern needs to be followed: Kulak: ear -> nominative case Kulağım: my ear -> genitive possessive case for 1st person Kulağımdan: from/than my ear -> comparative case So it should be: “Sol kulağım sağ kulağımdan daha iyi duyabilir.” The basic suffix for comparative is “-den”. It may transform to “-dan” due to vowel harmony. And it may be strengthened when it was added to a word which ends with a strong letter, which is called consonant assimilation or consonant harmony. For example the pattern for conjoining “kulak” and ”-dan” -> “Kulak” ends with a strong letter which is “-k”. When “kulak” is added a suffix which starts with a soft letter, it makes the suffix transform to a strong letter. Since “-den” suffix starts with a soft letter “d” the phrase should be “kulaktan”. “Kırmızı gömlek hoşuma gidiyor.” No error. “Gece pijama giyiyorum.” No error. “Sol dızım lazen ağrıyor.” Misspelling is for “dizim” and “bazen”. So the sentence should be: “Sol dizim bazen ağrıyor”. “Birçok kadın külotlu çorabi giyiyorlar.” If you say “birçok kadın külotlu çorabı giyiyorlar”, then its meaning is “Many women wear THE panty-hose” As if there is only one or afore-mentioned panty-hose which is described before while talking, all women in earth wear THAT panty-hose. Although there is no specific article (e.g. “the” in English) for defining in Turkish, you can give defining meaning with the accusative case. So if you use accusative case here, then you simply add a “the” before that word in meaning. Since all women in earth cannot wear the same pantyhose at the same time, it should be nominative case. So it is: “Birçok kadın külotlu çorap giyiyor(lar)”. In regular sentences, although subject is plural, verb is generally singular, “ler” or “lar” suffix for plurality of the verb is not used much. “Kadın için etek yazda hoş.” “yazda” or “kışta” is hardly preferred to use in Turkish. We prefer using “yazın” instead. And instead of “kışta” we use “kışın. But we use “ilkbaharda” and “sonbaharda” (ENG: “in spring” and “in fall” respectively). “Ayakkabıyı almam lazım.” If you use accusative case as “ayakkabıyı” here then you meant that you’ve seen a pair shoes in market and your partner or friend knows that you’ve seen those. And both knowingly and defined you mean that “I need to buy THOSE shoes!”. If that is the intent then accusative case is correct. However if you need a pair shoes anyhow because of necessity it doesn’t matter that are specific or not you need a pair of shoes. In this case you use nominative case by meaning “a pair of shoes” and you say “Ayakkabı almam lazım”. “Hava yağmurlu için bana çizme lazım.” If you mean that “I need a pair of boots because it is raining” then your sentence should be “Hava yağmurlu olduğu için bana çizme lazım” In “because” clauses there needs to be a verb or predicate before “için” and that is “olmak” verb. The general pattern for “because clauses” in Turkish is “V1+diği için”. V1 means imperative and absolute mood of a verb. “-diği” may transform to “-dığı”, “-duğu”, and “-düğü” due to vowel harmony. Or you can use “olduğundan” word instead of “olduğu için” phrase and it still carries the similar meaning. “Takım elbisele dans edibilirim.” “ile” conjunction is used in two forms. “elbise ile” or “elbiseyle”. The “i" of the “ile” falls of and "+le" is added to the word. But if the word ends with a vowel letter there is needed to use a buffer letter and that buffer letter is "-y". So it is : "elbiseyle". The pattern of “dans etmek” for this phrase is: Dans etmek: to do a dance (or simply “dance”) Dans ederim: I do a dance Dans edebilirim: I can do a dance “et” transforms to “ed”, because it ends with a strong consonant, it transforms to “-d” when added with a suffix starting with a vowel letter. So it is now ed+(e)r+im for simple present or aorist tense for the first person. If you add “ability” or “availability” to the verb, you add “(e)bil” to the root of the verb. The root is “et” and it transforms to “ed” and there is “(e)bil” which shows the ability by giving meaning of “can” or “may”. After that there is the tense suffix but it is transformed to “(i)r” because of “(e)bil” particle. New vowel harmony is produced for “(e)r” being preceding the “(e)bil” and transforms to “(i)r”. After all there is personal suffix for the first person “im”: Ed+(e)bil+(i)r+im. So the sentence is: “Takım elbiseyle dans edebilirim”. “Sabahları ağizımı yıkıyorum.” There needed to be haplology here. “Ağız” is a typical word of which last vowel falls when added with a suffix starting with a vowel letter. So it is “ağız” + “ım” which means “my mouth”. When conjoint, it becomes “ağ(ı)z+ım” and finally it is “ağzım”. The last vowel of “ağız” is “ı" and it falls when conjoint. So the sentence is: “Sabahları ağzımı yıkıyorum”. “Tişörtle bisiklet kullanabilirim.” No error. “Insanlar bu zamanlarda geceliği giymiyorlar.” Subject and verb harmony needed to be retouched. As I mentioned before, if you use a subject ending with “-ler” or “-lar” then your verb doesn’t contain “-ler” or “-lar” at the end. Grammatically that is correct but it rasps the ear in colloquial speech. So use it like “İnsanlar bu zamanlarda geceliği giymiyor.” The stress here is “gecelik” so you point out and give highlight that “gecelik” is not worn out on these times. If you intend to point out that “these times” so the sentence should be “İnsanlar geceliği bu zamanlarda giymiyor.” I hope that would be helpful... Take care... Edited by Ertugrul on 20 July 2009 at 10:47am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ertugrul Diglot Groupie Turkey Joined 5655 days ago 63 posts - 124 votes Speaks: Turkish*, English Studies: Arabic (Written) | Message 243 of 868 20 July 2009 at 10:38am | IP Logged | ||
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And corrections for Fasulye’s essay are below:
Firstly it is “havuz” not “havus” in Turkish for pool. “Yüzme havusunda” It should be “Yüzme havuzunda”. “Şehrimde birçok yüzme havusunlar var.” Havuz: pool Yüzme havuzu: swimming pool. Yüzme havuzları: swimming pools. So it should be “Şehrimde birçok yüzme havuzları var.” “En çok yüzme havusunda şehrimin yüzmek seviyorum, çünkü elli metre yüzme havusunlu. ” For the first phrase, word order needs to be retouched. If it is “I like to swim in swimming pool of my city at most.” then your sentence should be “En çok şehrimin yüzme havuzunda yüzmeyi seviyorum”. For the second phrase, if it is “Because it is a swimming pool in fifty meters.” then your sentence should be: “Çünkü bu 50 metrelik bir yüzme havuzu” or “Çünkü bu yüzme havuzu elli metre(dir)” “Bügün suyun sıcak derecesi yirmi yedi vardı. ” Word order needs to be retouched and there is a misspelling for “bugün”. “Suyun sıcak derecesi” is not a preferred phrase. We use “sıcak su derecesi” for “the degree of the hot water”. So the sentence is: “Bugün sıcak su derecesi yirmi yedi vardı” or simply “Bugün sıcak su derecesi yirmi yediydi”. “Su hoş, şayet sıcak derecesi fazla soğuk değil. ” “şayet” word is not proper for this sentence. If you meant “Water is pleasant when the hot degree (of water) is not too cold” then your sentence should be “Sıcak (su) derecesi fazla soğuk “olmadığında” or ”değilken” su hoş.” “Burada yetişkinler ve çocuklar yüzüyor. ” No error. “Ama çocuklar için başka küçük ve alçak yüzme havasun var, çünkü büyük fazla derin. ” No error except misspelling for “havuz”. And for the second sentence it should be “büyüğü fazla derin” is very proper. So it is: “Ama çocuklar için başka küçük ve alçak yüzme havuzları var, çünkü büyüğü fazla derin”. “Çünkü birçok çocuk daha yüzemezler. ” If you meant “Because, many children cannot swim yet” then your sentence is correct. But still “-ler” is not suitable to use at the end in colloquial speech. So it should be: “Çünkü birçok çocuk daha yüzemez”. However it is preferred to use “Çünkü birçok çocuk yüzmeyi bilmiyor” (ENG: “Because many children don’t know (how) to swim”). “Yüzmek çok şağlıklı! ” No error and agreed :) “Ne zaman siz yüzme istiyorsunuz? ” If you mean “When do you want to swim?” then it should be: “Ne zaman yüzmek istiyorsunuz?”. If you still want to use “siz” subject, you use it at the beginning of the sentence such as “Siz ne zaman yüzmek istiyorsunuz?” which is very and very formal sentence. So it’s better to use “Ne zaman yüzmek istiyorsunuz?”. I can realize that you both, Fasulye and Johannes, are making a good progress when constructing a sentence in Turkish. Congratulations again. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Johannes Diglot Groupie Germany adfc-nrw.de/ Joined 5636 days ago 76 posts - 79 votes Speaks: German*, Latin Studies: Turkish | Message 244 of 868 20 July 2009 at 11:14am | IP Logged | ||
Hi Ertugrul, your help is splendid. But my conscience is pricking me, that you had so much work with my sentences. I owe you a debt of gratitude! Have a nice week. Johannes 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5840 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 245 of 868 20 July 2009 at 5:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hi Ertugurul,
Thanks in advance! I will print the corrections out and study them in the library tomorrow. And we can talk about the result of my studies tomorrow when we meet for our study group. Selamlarla, Fasulye 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ertugrul Diglot Groupie Turkey Joined 5655 days ago 63 posts - 124 votes Speaks: Turkish*, English Studies: Arabic (Written) | Message 246 of 868 21 July 2009 at 7:30am | IP Logged | ||
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Correction of my previous corrections, thanks to phantometal who has warned me.
“Şehrimde birçok yüzme havusunlar var.” I'd suggested saying “Şehrimde birçok yüzme havuzları var.” But still there is an error with this sentence. The adjective "birçok" and plural forms of the qualified nouns cannot be used together. So the sentence should be "Şehrimde birçok yüzme havuzu var." “Bügün suyun sıcak derecesi yirmi yedi vardı.” I'd suggested using “Bugün sıcak su derecesi yirmi yedi vardı” or “Bugün sıcak su derecesi yirmi yediydi”. You can alternativetely and more properly use: "Bugün su sıcaklığı yirmi yedi dereceydi" or: "Bugün suyun sıcaklığı yirmi yedi dereceydi" or in technical terms: "Bugün suyun sıcaklık dercesi yirmi yediydi" “Yüzmek çok şağlıklı! “ I'd said that there was no error but there is a misspelling for the word "sağlıklı". The correct form of the sentence is: "Yüzmek çok sağlıklı" I'm very sorry for the revision and correction of my corrections. I hope you shall print this out too so you can study this part too. Have nice study… Edited by Ertugrul on 21 July 2009 at 7:36am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Johannes Diglot Groupie Germany adfc-nrw.de/ Joined 5636 days ago 76 posts - 79 votes Speaks: German*, Latin Studies: Turkish | Message 247 of 868 21 July 2009 at 8:31am | IP Logged | ||
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Hi Ertugrul,
I've just printed out your correction and will bring it to our study group today. Many thanks!! Johannes Edited by Johannes on 21 July 2009 at 8:33am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5840 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 248 of 868 21 July 2009 at 8:34am | IP Logged | ||
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Ertugurul, thanks as well for this amendment. I should be more concentrated because such errors as I wrote in the word "saglikli" are unnecessary because I know how to write this word. But I have to study everything in detail to get the learning effect.
I am going to write more essays with hyperliterals.... Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 21 July 2009 at 8:40am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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