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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5848 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes  1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 169 of 3959 12 January 2009 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | ||
Eine sehr gute Idee! Ich kann den Sender BR Alpha nicht empfangen und daher werde ich mir deinen Link mit den Astronomie-Videos gerne mal am Wochenende näher anschauen. Ich konnte meine Neugier doch nicht ganz bezwingen und habe mir schonmal ein Astronomie-Video zum Test angeschaut. Das ist ja ein sehr interessanter Link! Vieles von den Infos, die Harald Leesch gibt, weiß ich schon, aber trotzdem sind es interessante Videos. Außerdem ist überhaupt die Website von BR Alpha lesenswert, denn sie bringt noch mehr über die Naturwissenschaften. Das wird nicht nur mich interessieren hier in diesem Log! Danke dir für die Mühe! Fasulye-Babylonia Edited by Fasulye on 12 January 2009 at 2:56pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6704 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 170 of 3959 12 January 2009 at 6:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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DE: Ich lausche gerade jetzt an Harald Leesch, der mir etwas über der Ursuppe erzählt - und ich werde danach noch mehr Videos anhören, bis ich mit meinem nächtligen Beitrag des Logbuches fertig bin. Ich kenne natürlich Herrn Leesch bereits in vivo von der Sender BR Alpha, aber es ist gut ihn wieder als Konserve zu hören und mir ein bißchen Naturwissenschaft anzueignen.
FR: J'ai d'ailleurs repris ma revue alphabéthique de mes cassettes musicales après une pause, - et après Rimski-Korsakov je suis maintenant arrivé à Albert de Rippe. Qui ça, vous dites? Eh bien, il est née en Italie (sous le nom d'Alberto de Ripa), mais après une periode chez Cardinal Ercole Gonzaga il est allé en France, où il a travaillé au cour des rois de la dynastie Valois. Les oeuvres que j'ai écoutées ce soir étaient écrit pour le luth, et c'est une musique compliquée, polyphone et probablement assez difficile à jouer, mais pas du tout difficile à écouter. Après cette musique j'ai eu l'idée de relire une oeuvre de Joachim du Bellay, qui a été écrit en 1549 vers la fin de la vie de Rippe (et une dizaine d'années avant la mort de du Bellay lui-même). Du Bellay était membre de la Pleïade, un groupe de jeunes poètes qui s'étaient tâchée de créer une nouvelle poésie française. Mais á cette époque la lecture des classiques - en Latin et Ancient Grecque - était encore considéré comme infiniment supérieure á celle des oeuvres dans la langue populaire. Dans l'oeuvre à laquelle j'ai fait référence ci-dessus - "La Défense et Illustration de la langue Française" - l'auteur trouve effectivement nécessaire d'affirmer "que la langue française ne doit être nommée barbare". Mais pour enrichir sa langue il trouve encore nécessaire de se baser sur la connaissance des classiques: "Et bien souvent, étonnés de la difficulté et longueuer d'apprendre des mots seulement, nous haïssons les lettres premier [=avant] que [nous] les ayons gouttées ou commencé à les aimer. Faut-il donc laisser l'étude des langues? Non, d'autant que les arts et les sciences sont pour le présent entre les mains des Grecs et Latins. Mais il se devrait faire à l'avenir qu'on pût parler de toute chose par tout le monde, et en toute langue". Une étrange réticence encore à cette époque, vu l'orgeuil des Français en égard à leur language déjà dans la période suivante, sous le soi-disant 'roi soleil' Louis XIV. L'Académie Française fut fondé déjà en 1635 sous Louis XIII. GR: Δανείστηκα στη βιβλιοθήκη το βιβλίο "Teach yourself colloquial Greek" ('μάθει τον εαυτό σας δημοφιλή ελληνικά') στην δεύτερη έκδοση με 355 σελίδες και δύο CD - πώς ονομάζεται ένα CD στα Ελληνικά; Εχει πολλά χρήσιμους λόγους και ιδιωματισμούς, αλλά όσον άφορα τις γραμματικές πληροφορίες αυτό το βίβλιο είναι αποσπασματικότερο από το αρχαίο βιβλίο "(Teach Yourself) Modern Greek" (1980). Από την άλλη πλεύρα έχει πιó πολλά καλοπροαíρετα παιδαγωγιχα κóλπα, όπως είναι η διάταξη των δύο στήλες, τα λόγια των οποíων πρέπει να συνδυαστούν σωστά. Δεν μου αρέζει γιατí βλέπουμε μóνο λάθος συνδυασμούς, και δεν θα πρέπει να θυμάται ακόμη τις λέξεις. Αισθάνομαι πραγματικά αρκεί να μάθουν ελληνικά με αυτό το βιβλίο, αλλά δεν θα ήθελα να το κάνω χωρίς τη σωστή γραμματική και ένα λεξικό. Το κείμενο αυτό έχω γράψει με ένα πρόγραμμα γραπτώς Elliniká. Ένα από τα πλεονεκτήματα του είναι ότι δεν πρέπει να επιλέξει μόνο τα γράμματα με το ποντίκι (όπως στο Word), αλλά επίσης να χρησιμοποιήσετε το πληκτρολόγιο. ---- It is late now, so the translations will have to wait until later. EDIT: .. and later is now. While I was writing the German passage above I listened to the astronomy lectures of Harald Leesch, first one about the primary 'soup' in which life appeared billions of years ago, teh I went on with the one about the ciolossal unstable star Canopus etc etc. Leesch is an excellent story teller, and everybody who can understand German and who is interested in natural sciences should spend some time in his company. His lectures are broadcast over BR Alpha, which is one of the free channels on the Astra satellite system. I have also spent some time listening to French lute music from the 16. century (i.e. the period of the Valois dynasty). It is very complex and refined music, but not difficult to listen to. This inspired me to reread a work by his contemporary, the poet Joachim du Bellay, who wrote a book called "The Defense for and illustration of the French language". The interesting thing is that du Bellay wanted to improve the French language on the basis of the knowledge of classical Latin and Greek literature, even though he is totally aware of the time it takes to become proficient in those languages: "And often, when we are surprised by the difficulty and time needed just to learn the word, we hate the letters before we have savoured them and started to love them. Should we then leave the study of the languages aside? No, so much (more) as the arts and science are currently in the hands of the Greeks and Romans. But in the future it should be so that everybody could talk about everytbing in every language. Reading this you should remember that du Bellay wrote this before the golden age of French, at a time where Latin was still the main medium of communication among the intellectuals and the clergy of Europe. In the Greek section I first mention that I have borrowed the "Teach yourself colloquial Greek" in the 2. edition at the local library, - I have even listened to one of the two CDs. I went through most of the book this weeekend, and my impression was that it was possible to learn some useful vocabulary from it, but as expected the grammatical descriptions were fragmented, and there were too much fun and games, - for instance of the kind with two columns full of words that have to be combined correctly. Which of course means that you don't need to remember any words - they are all there, but you just see them in the wrong combinations. To be fair, I think that you could learn Greek from this book, but I would not like to try it without having a good grammar and a dictionary to my disposition. And apart from the lack of CD's you could have learnt as much from the old "Teach yourself Modern Greek" from 1980, which was half the size of the modern version. Maybe I'm just old and grumpy, but I prefer the way the old book was written. Edited by Iversen on 15 January 2009 at 5:09pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5848 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 171 of 3959 12 January 2009 at 11:20pm | IP Logged | ||
Ich kannte Harald Leesch und seine Mini-Vorlesungen zur Astronomie überhaupt nicht. Mein Lernpartner Türkisch kann BR Alpha empfangen und hat die Sendungen alle gesehen. Jetzt weiß ich endlich, wovon er mir erzählt hat. In der Woche habe ich immer sehr wenig Zeit, das wird wohl eher etwas fürs Wochenende. Fasulye-Babylonia 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6704 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 172 of 3959 14 January 2009 at 4:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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.. und gerade habe ich Harald Leesch auf ZDF wiederentdeckt.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5848 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 173 of 3959 15 January 2009 at 12:01am | IP Logged | ||
GE: Ja, ich habe gehört, dass Harald Leesch die ZDF Sendung "Wunder des Universums" von Joachim Bublath übernommen hat. ES: Por mi estis necese, ke vi klarigis al la legantoj de via log, kial kaj kiel vi metodike uzas intermiksajxojn de parencaj lingvoj por pli rapide aktive uzi novajn lingvojn. Pro tio mi nun komprenas tiun fenomenon ekzemple, kiam vi uzas Esperanton aux Afrikaans. Mi tute separate lernas lingvojn kaj evitas intermiksi ilin, do mia propra lernmetodo estas malsama al la via. Pro tio mi ankaux ne uzas lingvajn analogiojn. Cxar mi nun vian metodikon bone komprenas, mi reagos alie. Do ne hezitu uzi viajn novajn lingvojn Esperanton kaj Afrikaans! Por paroli Esperanton mi unufoje en la monato iras al eta Esperanto-grupo en najbara urbo. Do mi logxas en la urbo A, mi laboras en la urbo B kaj mia Esperanto-grupo renkontigxas en la urbo C. Ni en la grupo pritraktas diversajn temojn rilate al Esperanto kaj ni tre strikte nur parolas Esperanton. Cxiuj en la grupo parolas flue la lingvon, tio tre placxas al mi. Fasulye-Babylonia Edited by Fasulye on 15 January 2009 at 1:31am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6704 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 174 of 3959 15 January 2009 at 6:26am | IP Logged | ||
ESP: Ne estas propra metodo. La plej simpla ekspligo estas tiu, ke mi klopodas pensi en ĉia lingvo kiel eble plej rapide, eĉ devas 'plenigi la kavojn' en mia pensoj kun vortoj kaj esprimoj de aliaj lingvoj aû imagoj. Kun lingvoj kognataj oni povas multfoje intuicii la korekta formulado, sed komprenable oni devas kontroli sian formuladon poste. Fakte estas pli probable tiu, ke mi konsultaros vortaron, se mi pensos iun kiu mi mem trovas dubeble. Se poste publike dirus aû skribus iun, miajn erarojn estus eble korektut - sed oni ne min korektas, se silentas. Fakte mi ne opinias, ke danĝere estas: la neta lingvo emerĝus aûtomate, kiam multe legas kaj (laûeble) multe aûskultas. Mi ne irus al Esperanto-grupo - mi ankaû ne havas Katalano-grupo, Rumano-grupo, Latino-grupo ... ----- Fasulye asked me to clarify how and why I methodically use language mixing in order to (learn to) use a new language faster. My answer is that it isn't really a method, it is just something that happens when I try to think in a new language before I can keep a 'clean' inner monologue running in my head. And contrary to many people here I don't fight this phenomenon because I see it as a fast way to get to think in the new language. If I do think something which I don't reckon to be correct, the chances are much greater that I actually take the time to check it in dictionaries and other places later than if I just gave up formulating that thought. And I may get corrections later when I actually write and speak in public, - I wouldn't get those by just remaining silent. The risk that I get stuck somewhere between two languages is minimal, - reading and (if possible) listening a lot will in the long run automatically take care of that. Edited by Iversen on 15 January 2009 at 5:10pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5848 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 175 of 3959 15 January 2009 at 6:30am | IP Logged | ||
Iversen, vi vojagxas al eksterlandoj - kaj mi iras al lingvo-grupoj por paroli fremdajn lingvojn. Fasulye-Babylonia Edited by Fasulye on 15 January 2009 at 6:37am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6704 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 176 of 3959 15 January 2009 at 6:33am | IP Logged | ||
Ne ekzistas Esperantolando
Certe altpreze kaj maloportune estas. Edited by Iversen on 15 January 2009 at 6:41am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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