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MrW TAC’13 Schnitzel/Mir/Sakura(de/ru/ja) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5223 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 1 of 53 04 December 2012 at 7:31pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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As per TAC 2013 Starter (Brun Ugle)'s definition, there should be nothing here prior to 2013/01/01, but everyone's doing it anyway, so what the hell... ;)
So, one post about me, the next one about my languages and the TAC -- you can skip this one altogether if you don't really want to get to know me, or simply you're not into long self-introductions. (Late edit: as the complete idiot I am, I forgot to leave a third placeholder to report my progress along TAC'13. I will do so in this post in page 5 -- now, back to the intro) OK, so that my teammates, forum godchildren (or anyone, really) have an idea of who I am and what to expect from me, let's start with some real data about me in the forum profile. Born in 1976, with a true passion for learning (and little for everything else). I studied Physics and Electronics Engineering and I aspired to be a teacher in a country where physicists and such are not needed, and where teachers are not respected, but even if it was clear pretty soon that I'd be better off jumping countries (or else being professionally frustrated forever), I've been delaying it for like 10 years -- I'm a two-times failed IT entrepreneur and I've been surviving as a teacher for a while, with a contract with a private academy to teach English at a public university and doing primarily private tutoring (the only 'niche' where people show some real drive to learn) in languages and sciences. I mostly enjoy being with people who are passionate and will go to some depths in subjects of their interest (as long as it's not team sports or something akin, I will genuinely enjoy an impromptu conference on anything), like all my family members tend to be (either that or extremely sensible) -- unfortunately that makes me see many people as dull when compared to them, and given their proximity to me the comparison is bound to happen rather soon after I meet anybody. A family whose company I enjoy so much, and with whom I share a somewhat abrasive sense of humor, is the main reason why I haven't left yet, and why I'm not very sociable either. Just why go chasing something I already have at home, the more as there's so little chance of getting it? I've actually been a lot happier since I started going/hanging out just with a few (but extremely good) friends I have, just when I feel like it (rarely) instead of forcing myself into going out as much as possible because 'socializing is good'. OK, enough 'personal' stuff, let's try to focus on languages now. What I have to say will probably reveal more about me anyway, but I think the more related to the forum theme, the better -- I certainly wouldn't come here as a first option if I wanted to discuss Thermodynamics :) As a physicist and polymath of sorts, I tend to try and unify my takes on things, and I've done that with languages and other stuff I've studied. This is how I have come to think over the years that learning is best done, and the principles I try to follow all the time -- keeping in mind a few things: -Whatever one is learning, as an adult, it's more productive to go through a bit of the theory behind it first, and then nail it through practice. The necessary amount of each varies according to subject, but there's always some theory to it, and it's better to understand it before getting hands-on with it. Always remember the paradox of the active user. -There's only so much abstract theory one can absorb in one go, so every field must be sub-divided in parcels small enough to interleave theory and practice in digestible chunks to work one's way through the whole field following the first principle. I.e. read the manual (for languages: learn grammar, phonetics, prosody) first, but don't read the whole thing, just the part that explains what you're going to work on each time. -Learning through theory is an adult ability that requires abstract thinking, i.e. not how children learn if left alone. However, any abstract knowledge is best achieved through study of practical cases before leaving 'the nasty details' behind. Adults pick up rules from examples faster than children, but mostly because they're used to it and see the point of generalization and picking up rules. -No matter how much you enjoy working out things yourself, it's always faster and more practical if someone knowledgeable tells you how stuff works. A good habit to keep, though -- you never know when it'll come in handy. In short, when I study something now, I also try to work out what are specific details and general principles that I can apply to the next thing. Maybe there's not that much you can take from, say, maths and apply to language, but certainly there's probably a lot about learning one language that can be applied to the next one. I studied my first foreign language (English) as a regular subject among others at high school, in a rather 'old school' (i.e. effective and to the point) manner, but without that focus on getting 'abstract stuff that makes it easier the next time' -- I acquired that insight in my first years of university (the only thing my time there was worth for). However, thinking about it while studying my second foreign language (German) helped me to develop this more abstract and mature view. Becoming an ESL/EFL teacher didn't add much to it (the current field fad is a focus on practice neglecting everything else) but being an active reader here did. Now that I'm hopefully done with that, it's time to finally apply anything I may have learned about learning languages to, well, learning some -- and putting the theory to test ;) Next post: my language goals for the upcoming 2013, and TAC'12 assessment ;( Edited by mrwarper on 24 January 2013 at 8:23pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5223 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 2 of 53 19 December 2012 at 7:50pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Now for something completely different ;) -- my languages:
On December 30th, 2010, I listed these as my language goals for 2011. That was the last year I was really active at this forum, still pondering and learning about how SLA is best done, but I basically applied nothing (did no study). Obviously, my goals were the same for 2012, and I changed my focus to be less active in the forum, and more active doing stuff for real, in the sense of getting something, whatever, done. I managed myself well with the first part :) Well, I got round to getting my C2 certification in English (which didn't interfere with anything, all I devoted to that was sitting through the exam) and failing my German B2. I don't feel bad about that because all the refresh I did means I must be at a solid B1 now. I somewhat improved my spoken Russian and did absolutely nothing with my Japanese, other than following my Team (Team い) log. So, what lies ahead for 2013? Target languages: German, Russian and Japanese, again. Whatever else comes my way as an 'inevitability'*. What I want to do in general: same as the last year, only corrected and augmented, i.e. do more stuff AND especially take advantage of all the materials that I silently piled up while I apparently was 'doing nothing' (study-wise) regarding my languages. Now, for the specific languages: +German: -Initial proficiency: B1, a bit rusty (passed the B1 test some 3 years ago, crammed a lot to refresh and improve, but failed the B2, fair and square -- haven't touched it again for 3 months). -Goals: get to B2 level ASAP and eventually move to Germany. -Methods: all what I haven't discarded from my past experience, studying with my text books (this is my priority language now), whatever interaction with my mates at Team Schnitzel brings along, and reading, reading, reading. -My story with it: my father enrolled himself, my mother and me at a language school 20 years ago, just for fun. I lasted two years vs the three months it took them to drop out :) I always wanted to get my German back but never had a real need for it. Now it can be a great asset to move to Germany where it should be apparently fairly easy (easier than here anyway) to get a decent labor life. +Russian: -Initial proficiency: A2 in listening or whereabouts, very spotty spoken Russian. I'm functionally illiterate -- I never took the time to sit and learn to read fluently. -Goal: whatever I can achieve, now that I have time to study for fun again. -Methods: interacting with my Team MIR, because the only Russian friend I'll meet semi-regularly is just too good with Spanish. -My story with it: I kind of always had the idea of learning it (and contact directly some tech people whose English is really poor), but nothing happened until that Russian friend of mine had this groceries shop where I used to hang out with a bunch of Russian immigrants... I learned some Russian from them, who speak good enough Spanish anyway, so it was just a 'fun' language that came along and stayed, sort of. This, and my no real need for the language means I never study at home because it's too hard to read... Eventually, however, I want to be fluent enough to get myself a Russian wife*, but that will have to be AFTER I move somewhere else, I get a decent job, I get a new personal life, etc. so I'm afraid I'll have time enough to polish my Russian :) *Not that I want to get a wife that is Russian, but I seem to be more attracted to how the Russian women I know think about family and other important stuff, than most European women I've met outside my family. +Japanese: -Initial proficiency: A2 listening, very spotty spoken Japanese (again). I'm almost illiterate -- I can read the kanas and maybe 50 Kanjis, with difficulty. -Goal: whatever I can achieve doing whatever Team Sakura convinces me to do ;) Paying a real visit to Japan some day ("real visit" = be no f**ing tourist, live there for real, job and all, for 6 months or more). -My story with it: I had the idea of learning it floating around, too, and one day a friend of mine told me he had actually started. So I started it myself and toyed with it for a year (did the Pimsleurs, etc.) I had a Japanese flatmate (a common friend to both of us) for a year but we had too much fun to study formally. I spoke whatever Japanese I could with him, and I have seven pages of notes I took from him when he tried to teach me a bit, with a grammar on his hand and all. Now I can barely read them. I have this Japanese friend too, who lives right across the street, and these friends married to Japanese women, who live nearby, but I never get round to calling them up... *sigh* *Inevitabilities: The idea of moving to Germany scares the hell out of me because I know it's for good (or for the next 25 years, anyway). Not in a literal sense, with traveling being so cheap nowadays, etc. but you get the idea. So I've been toying with the idea of moving to work somewhere else in Europe, Norway for example, for a shorter period. Since English seems to be universally spoken everywhere, I think I should be able to get by while I absorb any local language(s) without formal studies, because I think I'll learn some of it *inevitably*, so I'm not joining the Scandinavian team or any other beforehand. Will that be a good idea, beyond comparing the efficiency of different methods? *Twilight zone theme* Now, off to hunt links to my team mates self-intros... Edited by mrwarper on 24 January 2013 at 8:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5331 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 3 of 53 19 December 2012 at 8:28pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Happy to see your log, team mate, and I look forward to seeing what you can do with those languages at the
end of the year. You are one of the extremely few Spaniards I know about whose English is really good, so you have a good starting point. And It's a great idea for you to try out Norway. I'm not even going to call you a lazy bum for not trying to learn some Norwegian first. I'll just think it :-) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Brun Ugle Diglot Senior Member Norway brunugle.wordpress.c Joined 6617 days ago 1292 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English*, NorwegianC1 Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, Spanish, Finnish | Message 4 of 53 19 December 2012 at 8:42pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Did I write that? I didn't mean there should be nothing in your log. I meant only that TAC starts on the first day of the year. One can prepare one's log beforehand.
I do think that there is something kind of mathematical about language. Or maybe it's just the way my brain works (or more often doesn't work), but grammar feels mathematical to be. Norway is great. You should definitely come for at least a visit. Edited by Brun Ugle on 19 December 2012 at 8:57pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5053 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 5 of 53 19 December 2012 at 9:05pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
That's probably even more expressed in societies which are more conservative than the Russian society. I mean the way women think about family. Anyway, успехов в изучении русского и других языков. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5223 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 6 of 53 20 December 2012 at 1:01am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Oh, thank you so much, you're also one of the extremely few Spaniards I've met who speak really good English :)))
"Luck with studying Russian and the other languages". Thanks a million - Bolshoi spasibo, Mark. Sorry for being a lazy bum and not setting up something to type Russian -- please just think that, like Cristina will, and I'll be really glad to have you watch me like a hawk whenever I dare to write some Russian ;)
[BTW: Since this is my own log, I hereby declare it open to discuss anything that doesn't degenerate into name-calling, especially into your name-calling me (you hear me, SC? -- please keep thinking :) So, yet another bit of 'abstract' stuff about me, then a little more, and more to-the-point, about forming a family and such:] I don't intend to be (or come across as) 'conservative' nor -God forbid- 'progressive'. I just try to be logical. That means that I'll do anything 'the way it has always been done' as long as it makes sense (thus I'll seem 'conservative') and I'll scrap without remorse anything that's done a certain way just for the sake of it or in a way that no longer makes sense (and then I'll appear 'progressive' to the untrained eye). I can't see the future so I don't know how everything I start will end and I'll certainly make more mistakes in the future, but I wouldn't even think about starting a relationship (let alone form a family) if I had the slightest doubt that it is not of the kind 'with you, forever'. Seems a bit old-fashioned here and now (except maybe in my family, and that only up to my generation) but for me it's the logical way to go, and I've just happened to find mindsets compatible with this much more often among Russian women so far. Of course, only time will tell about that, and everything else. Edited by mrwarper on 30 December 2012 at 3:15am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4704 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 7 of 53 01 January 2013 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Good luck, mrwarper. I'm sure you'll get through a lot in the coming new year with fresh
eyes and that you will achieve more than you claim to have the past year (although I will leave up to you how much that is). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| LanguageSponge Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5763 days ago 1197 posts - 1487 votes Speaks: English*, German, French Studies: Welsh, Russian, Japanese, Slovenian, Greek, Italian | Message 8 of 53 01 January 2013 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Good luck with your languages this year, mrwarper. I will keep my eyes peeled for any Russian or German you choose to write this year.
Jack 1 person has voted this message useful |
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