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Gary’s 2015 TACtivation: FR, IT | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5209 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes  Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 113 of 187 29 April 2015 at 11:04am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks! Smartscube looks interesting: another thing to watch if I have a few spare minutes to fill in but not enough for a TV episode. When I said I'm looking for something similar to Lucrezia, I meant something aimed at non-native speakers that talks about daily life and explains tricky expressions that are useful in conversation, but I'm of course happy to hear about anything that's interesting and short!
I'm not sure about the bravery: if I had known beforehand that there would be audience participation, I doubt that I would have gone :). On reflection, for a comedy show in a very small venue I suppose it was to be expected. Fortunately I didn't get picked on much: maybe they saw that I was alone and not quite relaxed, and the theme of the show was dating/relationships so when they asked questions it was mostly to couples. And I understood the entire thing, apart from one or two particularly energetic parts, which indeed is something to be proud of since it was very colloquial and had a lot of humour with puns and cultural references. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Elenia Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom lilyonlife.blog Joined 3858 days ago 239 posts - 327 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Swedish, Esperanto | Message 114 of 187 30 April 2015 at 1:53am | IP Logged | |||||
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Great experiences! Inspired by your account, I asked my friends if we could speak purely
in French during my upcoming visit, and they all laughed at me... less inspiring. But I'm still hoping to get some French practice in when they're not looking! 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5209 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 115 of 187 30 April 2015 at 11:29am | IP Logged | |||||
That's unfortunate, but it's great that you asked! With friends it can be tricky, especially if you knew them before you had a decent level in the language. If you're used to speaking English together, it can feel unnatural to change to another language. All the more so if their English level is higher than your level in their language (I don't know whether this is your case). A lot depends on the person too. A few examples in my social life... I have an Italian flatmate and we mostly speak English, partly because that's what we've always done and partly because her English is great, although when we're with other Italians we happily use Italian. It would be great if we could speak more Italian at home, but we don't and it feels unnatural to do so, so I just look elsewhere for my conversation opportunities. I had another Italian flatmate a few years ago who never quite took my Italian learning seriously... until we met up again a year later and my level was a lot higher! One Italian I know lived in English-speaking countries for ten years and of course speaks English very well, yet in Italian she's much more talkative and less shy. Now that I know Italian she prefers to speak that with me despite our English-speaking past and our respective levels. And generally, I know some Italians with whom I always speak Italian, some with whom I always speak English, and some with whom it's a mixture, and it depends on a lot of factors. So I wouldn't be too discouraged if one particular person or group isn't supportive. French speakers are a slightly different case though. Like I said in my travel account and other places, I find that in social situations they tend to not be very keen to speak their language with learners, regardless of levels. So sadly I'm not too surprised by your friends' reaction. But there are always exceptions, for example the girl who's been staying in my flat for a few weeks is very happy to chat in French with me, so keep it up! 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5209 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 116 of 187 01 May 2015 at 6:05pm | IP Logged | |||||
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After a discussion with Facebook friends I finally signed up for Duolingo. I'm pleasantly surprised so far: I had expected it to be beginner-focused but it also seems useful for practising/revising more advanced stuff, and it lets you "fast-track" existing knowledge with the placement test and lesson tests. So far it's mostly revision of existing knowledge, but a few questions have certainly made me think, and revising the basics sometimes is never a bad thing (see comment in the first post of the log about the importance of basics as well as advanced things). The tests seem quite tolerant of different word order, typos, etc., which can often be a problem with computer-based tools like that.
I don't see it becoming a major part of learning, especially at my level, but I can see myself using it at the times when I'm at the computer or phone, feel like doing something more active than reading/watching, and have finished my Anki cards for the day. My profile if anyone wants to add me. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4911 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 117 of 187 01 May 2015 at 7:42pm | IP Logged | |||||
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It will be interesting to see what a student as advanced as yourself thinks of Duolingo over time. I went back to Duo on reading you post, after several months absence. I came across one of the reasons people get frustrated with Duolingo:
English: The day of my birth. My response: La date de ma naissance. ("ma" was marked wrong) Acceptable responses: Le jour de ma naissance. Ma date de naissance. Okay, jour is more literal, but my answer actually uses elements from both correct answers. But I'm not actually too bothered by that sort of thing on Duolingo, especially now that they've gotten rid of hearts. Next time I should have no problem giving one of the "right" answers, and I'll just move along. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Elenia Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom lilyonlife.blog Joined 3858 days ago 239 posts - 327 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Swedish, Esperanto | Message 118 of 187 01 May 2015 at 9:46pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, we all usually speak English together, although I tend to message one of the friends in French. The native French speaker refused the most emphatically. Hopefully I strike gold and make a French friend soon. There is a language exchange designed to get native English speakers and native French speakers together. (It's called Franglishers, and I can't remember particularly where they are based, but I know they want to expand.) I just need to get my courage up enough to actually attend... 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5209 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 119 of 187 04 May 2015 at 11:10am | IP Logged | |||||
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Jeffers: I'm quite liking Duolingo so far, apart from one bug where when you finish a test it sometimes doesn't record the result and so you have to do it all again. But hey, it's more revision. So far I'd say the site works a bit better for Italian than for French: less choppy audio and more tolerance for phrasing of answers. Which is a little surprising: I'd have thought French would be a more popular choice so they'd put more effort into it.
I'm not sure how much use I'll find for it once I've completed all the section tests. It does have features to revise/strengthen stuff you've already learnt which might be helpful, again just as something to do if I have a few spare minutes. Elenia: That event sounds like it could be worth a shot. I've tried various exchange/meetup events in the past but given up on them now, too many other learners and not enough (cooperative) native speakers. But one that's actually designed to get speakers of each language together might be better. Is it one of the ones that works like speed dating, where you chat to each person for a few minutes? I think that could work quite well, IF (big "if") there are enough French natives to go around. The meetups here are just free-form, so quite hit-or-miss. Good luck if you do go! I have had a few French friends over the years, but they always seem to be people who're only here temporarily. In fact I met up with one yesterday and we got on well and had a good chat, but they're leaving the country in a few weeks! I'll bet that native speaker in your friend group is supportive of your French-learning efforts right until you suggest speaking it with them? I've known people like that: they think it's great that I'm learning their language and are happy to hear about my studies and films and books and plans to visit the country... yet the idea of actually speaking it with me is completely out of the question. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5209 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 120 of 187 07 May 2015 at 4:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Progress has been very slow since I came back from holiday. Busy with music, busy at home, and more health and sleep problems that have hurt my productivity and my desire to go out and speak. However, I think things will calm down a little after this week, and I've started seeking help with the problems, so hopefully I'll get back on track soon.
Some small updates: - Watched Il comandante e la cicogna, a strange but fun film. I think I heard about it in somebody's log here, but I can't remember whose. - Music theme again: found a YouTube channel full of Italian videos about guitar. Covers a lot of stuff: lessons, techniques, songs, equipment. This video about pedals was useful. Looking for videos about your interests is one of these tips that is so obvious and clichéd that you tend to look past it, but it's a good one. - So far so good with Duolingo. I discovered that the "strengthen" tests have a voice recording feature, which of course doesn't work very well but is a nice idea. Maybe it's a good thing if it forces me to speak extra-clearly. Seems like you have to wait a second orw two after clicking the button before you speak, or it won't pick up the first words. - A friend sent me a list of 21st century French films. Most I've either seen or are on my to-watch list, but a few are new to me. - As I said in the last post, I've found someone else to speak French with, but they're only here for another couple of weeks. So I'll make the most while I can. Plans for the near future are to get back on track with speaking: - Italian Output Challenge! Three challenges still to do now. I'll try to make a start next week when I should have a bit more peace and quiet at home. I'm looking forward to the instructional video in particular. I've decided on a music-themed video along the lines of the ones in the link above, although a bit less serious, and I've mostly written a script. This month's one of explaining a game also sounds interesting; explaining things concisely and clearly in a foreign language is a difficult thing that is worth practising. - More pronunciation work. The revived accent reduction discussion has in turn revived my interest in this. I'm keen to experiment with speech analysis software to work on intonation, although for now that's more a curiosity than anything else as I think intonation is a lower priority than getting the rhythm, stress, and individual sounds right, especially for Italian in which the intonation varies regionally. - Lessons. The iTalki tutor I worked with before doesn't seem to be teaching any more, but there are plenty others. I've accepted that regular lessons aren't realistic for me, but I'd like to work with informal tutors on a more ad-hoc basis, especially to fill in the gaps during "quiet periods". I've realised that my opportunities to use Italian socially come in waves. Sometimes I can speak it almost daily for a few weeks, then other times I hardly use it at all for a few weeks, and I get rusty which can make it harder to start using it again. A few conversations with tutors during these quiet times could help smooth things over and maintain consistency. - Self-talk. Self-talk is like meditation: incredibly helpful, yet I just keep falling out of the habit, especially at the times I need it most. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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