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Native Esperanto as a Test Case (...) | ||
Tags: Native Language | Esperanto | ||
 Language Learning Forum : Esperanto |  | |
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6907 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 1 of 43 26 June 2007 at 4:59am | IP Logged | ||
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I haven't seen this report before:Native Esperanto as a Test Case for Natural Language (PDF)
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| awake Senior Member United States Joined 6634 days ago 406 posts - 438 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Esperanto, Spanish | Message 2 of 43 26 June 2007 at 9:11am | IP Logged | ||
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That's very interesting, thanks for the link! :)
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| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6766 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 3 of 43 28 June 2007 at 8:36am | IP Logged | ||
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Now people might not get so annoyed at me when I say spoken Esperanto is a creolized language. :)
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| allesgeht08 Diglot Groupie United States Joined 6742 days ago 42 posts - 44 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian | Message 4 of 43 28 June 2007 at 4:14pm | IP Logged | ||
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very interesting; but I thought the fundamental definition of a natural language that it arose gradually and was not consciously created?
on a different note, what do y'all think of the idea, proposed on p. 53, of an all-Esperanto society? (i.e. a town or something--not the whole world.) Would it be possible, or even desirable? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Mga Groupie United States beastie.redirectme.n Joined 7121 days ago 67 posts - 66 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Arabic (Written) | Message 5 of 43 01 July 2007 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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I would feel sorry for the inhabitants of such a society.
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 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6701 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 43 02 July 2007 at 6:33am | IP Logged | ||
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I wouldn't. There are other small language communities who are more isolated and more exposed, - for instance the town Maalula in Syria where Aramaic is still spoken right in the middle of an Arab-speaking region with a very different religious background. Or what about all the villages in New Guinea who each have their own language, which means that any communication with the outside world has to be through the local pidgin?
In the hypothetical case that somebody created an Esperantoville somewhere the first generation would probably be L2, L3... -speakers. But as mentioned in the article about native Esperanto the country of Israel was created by people who had other native languages, and who had to learn something that was essentially an artificial variant of an antique language (Ivrit). So the exercise has been done before on a fairly large scale. However most language shifts of this kind have a violent background, and I see no upheavals in the current world that would force anybody to switch to Esperanto. Other languages maybe, but not Esperanto. Esperanto is essentially an artificially created creole language, i.e. a language that is based on elements from several (related) languages and which from the beginning ahs no native speakers. But when such a lingua franca has been in use for some time it can take on a life of its own, it can acquire a literature, native speakers and so forth. When this has happened, and to a large extent it has happened to Esperanto (contrary to other artificial languages), then it doesn't really matter how it originated. And then - if Esperanto really did become a native language for a lot of people then one thing would certainly happen: it would become as difficult as other languages. People would start breaking the rules (even the 16 sacred commandments!), they would make exceptions, regional variations, new words, new rules, exceptions from the new rules and so forth. Other people would start describing these developments using the whole arsenal of linguistic tools, condemning some developments, recommanding others, and soon Esperanto would have all the complications that it was supposed to eliminate. Edited by Iversen on 07 September 2011 at 1:15am 15 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Cage Diglot aka a.ardaschira, Athena, Michael Thomas Senior Member United States Joined 6622 days ago 382 posts - 393 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Portuguese | Message 7 of 43 09 July 2007 at 12:23am | IP Logged | ||
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How would Esperanto compare with Klingon in say number of native speakers, total number of speakers, literature, culture, etc? Wonder how many bilingual Esperanto/Klingon speakers there are? By the way, very interesting post iversen! Edited by Cage on 09 July 2007 at 12:26am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| LilleOSC Senior Member United States lille.theoffside.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6689 days ago 545 posts - 546 votes 4 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: French, Arabic (Written) | Message 8 of 43 09 July 2007 at 10:03am | IP Logged | ||
I think Esperanto is richer in all those catergories.Isn't Klingon a language that very few people know? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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